Morph

[quote user="The Great Drinkell"]From my information coming from Colney all the skillful players are being overlooked for the "Big lads" this is the biggest - no pun intended- worry about the whole set up under Worthy. I hope my information is incorrect.[/quote] Apparently that''s a worrying trend in the youth side of set-ups in Scotland as well GD. Big, fast and physical are the attributes prized rather than the ability with the ball.

[quote user="Konstantin Pobedonostsev"]History is important because it is only through looking at where we have come from, how we did it and why we are where we are that we can properly assess our position and think about better ways of improving and helping our team than simply screaming SACK THE MANAGER. [/quote] Can''t disagree with your first part about history being important on the condition that lessons are learnt from what has gone before. I think that is where the arguments on history begin to fall down with the current situation. You can browse this message board and find numerous posts from less vociferous posters about how the current coaching team have not learnt from past endeavours and how this continues to be so. You ask all supporters to find better ways of helping the team. I don''t think you''ll find a single poster who comes on this message board and does not give his all for the club on matchday. That''s not to say they will then blindly accept the performance on the field if it''s a poor. Every one of the supporters who post here want the club to progress. Doing nothing other than pledging our allegiance and having blind faith in the current situation is leaving many supporters frustrated. What other ways can the supporters help? Many don''t like what they see on the field at the moment. If a decorating business comes and does a crappy job on decorating your house - do you complain? I bet you do. That decorating business either brushes (pardon the pun) up it''s act or finds it''s out of business. Football clubs can get away with selling poor product because for the most part the fan keeps coming through the turnstiles. However, those fans do manifest their discontent with the product in other ways. I think that''s what you''re seeing here. Let me ask who do you think is responsible for the poor product at the moment? And more importantly how does the club fix it? As someone else noted, if Delia''s restaurant is performing badly who does she speak to to sort it out? I bet you it''s the head man that is told to sort it out or he/she will be looking for alternative employment.

[quote user="Konstantin Pobedonostsev"]Yes we are in a serious dip of form but so are Palace and they are just getting on with it and recognising that the best way, as football fans, that you can yank the club out of its slump is to show genuine passion, trust and support when the players and manager need it most.   [/quote] KP, might I ask what a supporter is supposed to do when, after giving the players and management that trust and support they go out and put together performances like the support has seen of late at Wolves, Luton, QPR, Millwall and Derby? How do you feel when someone just blatantly throws that trust and support back in your face by not performing? I think Worthy has had ample time to sort out the problems. Many of the problems have been there through the Premiership season and he either does NOT see them or simply chooses to ignore them. This has gone on to long and the normal rhetoric of hard work and effort is clearly falling on deaf ears. If they lose at Crewe with another no-show then the man should have the guts to admit he can''t fix this problem and leave.  

I posted this on the official site message board but figured it also deserved some board space here too: This is a heartfelt plea to the players from a remote City fan who is dismayed at the state that his club finds itself in. Another game. Another Saturday. Another no-show by many of the great and good that now wear the yellow and green. Yet the club continues to garner THE BEST away support in the whole of the Championship. These fans pay out their hard earned cash - limited cash some may argue - to follow their heroes. But sadly their heroes aren''t behaving in a manner worthy of that mantle at the moment. All I ask of the players in these trying moments is this. When you cross that white line at the start of the match remember to do just one thing. You may not feel up to playing for the manager and staff at the moment. You may not feel like playing for your own personal pride at present. You may even feel that playing for the shirt is not where you''re currently at. But, at least, find it in your nature to have the courtesy to go out and play for the fans who are earning a mere fraction of what you yourselves earn in a week. Doing what many of the fans can only dream of doing. In any other walk of life your conduct would be considered unprofessional and you would probably be shown the door in a short space of time. In football, you are afforded more luxury than that and the person shown the door is the man in charge. If you don''t agree with what the manager is doing then find a more constructive way to take the issue to those in charge of the club. But don''t do the paying public an unjustice by not giving your all. OTBC.

FB, you asked for people to make suggestions on changes given that the colours seem to be firmly posted to the Worthy mast. I would ask who is the person most responsible for first team coaching. If it''s Foley then Worthy could look at seeing if a change in his immediate staff would bring rewards. A fresh look at the training, the coaching and the style of play may help the situation. By all accounts the way the side under Williams is playing might warrant getting input from him on what changes could be made. Other than that. I don''t think a director of football will help - you get into internal arguments over who has control of how the first team plays. A sports psychologist from outside might help, but perhaps the players have had it all before. I thought Carolan was a sports fitness specialist which begs the question why we are having so many injuries.  

[quote user="1st Wizard"]I feel strongly that all moderation on these boards should end. ... Unless its deflamtory or libelist chat, let it rip. [/quote] Don''t agree with you on this one Wiz. The second part of your treatise that I quoted is the crucial one as far as I can see. This is a message board that is connected to an operating business. I don''t know what disclaimers the Pink''Un or should I say Archant, have to protect them from what is posted on this site but moderation is their way of protecting themselves from any legal action due to libelist posting by a member of the posting community. With your carrowroad.net, wrathofthebarclay and so on there''s nothing at stake other than someone''s right to use a hosting service. Clearly if that webspace host deems the content of the site to flammatory that site would soon be torn down. I don''t think that''s an option for Archant. So I''m on the side of the moderators in this one. Whilst its a pain in the butt sometimes over the delay it is there for a reason. A rather serious reason. If you don''t like it there are plenty of unmoderated boards out there.

FB, would you agree that something is not quite right at the club - at least judging by performances on the pitch. What''s your take on what is causing the current malaise and genuine under-performance? You know how people are, it''s just in our nature, that when things aren''t going right people look for somebody to blame. In the national team''s case when things are going RIGHT they look for people to blame. From my perspective I could argue that it''s good that the club has claimed to stand together on the current situation, but from the perspective of the more critical fans that have seen the team over the recent months it''s all too much spin and hollow words. People want action. They want to see things getting better. They don''t want to hear the usual tripe about the "rub of the green", "lady luck not on our side", "good work rate" and all that stuff. The PR machine is really working overtime and I''m not sure if they''re simply trying to convince themselves that everything is alright. Nobody has come out and said they know what''s wrong and what''s being done to fix it. Even Worthy in his post-Wolves interview couldn''t find the words to say what was wrong. It''s that lack of understanding of the problem that worries me the most. An infinite amount of keeping the faith isn''t going to help it the coaching staff and players can''t put their fingers on what is broken and how to fix it. Rabbit''s feet, four leaf clovers, horseshoes, heather sprigs and so on just doesn''t cut it.

Has to be some manufacturer of Viagara for me -  "For the longer lasting experience." Or perhaps Walt Disney World. We need something to "Discover the Magic".

Beds, just one word. SUPERB!

[quote user="rainbowchaser"] i still think that we should give the team four more games to get it sorted with a target of 8 points. if we do not achieve this then we have to be radical and change not only the managment structure but the playing staff as well. meantime lets get behind the team and hope that we can get back to winning ways! [/quote] I have to ask rainbowchaser, if in those four games we don''t get the target 8 points does somebody get the boot? From my remote perspective Worthy et al have had more than enough "four game" chances to sort this mess out and nothing has happened. Lots of the normal talk about work rate and missed chances but it ain''t happening. How much more keeping the faith do the doubters have to put up with. ...

[quote]allways, I''m going to take issue with the words you use. "I allways think a good indication of how well the manager has been doing is allways seen by the level of support he has been getting." Actua...[/quote] Ooops! Amazing what a difference a missing "N" and "T" make to a comment."Actually I think you''ll find the fans come to see the team. Who is in charge has little to do with it. 25000 AREN''T coming through the turnstiles because Worthy is sitting in the dugout. It''s what the team doing on the field that matters."...

[quote]I take on board lots of your comments and its nice not to get abused from someone who is of the worthy out brigade.I allways think a good indication of how well the manager has been doing is allways s...[/quote] allways, I''m going to take issue with the words you use. "I allways think a good indication of how well the manager has been doing is allways seen by the level of support he has been getting." Actually I think you''ll find the fans come to see the team. Who is in charge has little to do with it. 25000 are coming through the turnstiles because Worthy is sitting in the dugout. It''s what the team doing on the field that matters. Whilst Worthy may be responsible for how they are playing it''s the team the fans come to see. In the last couple of seasons the fans have been buoyed by the football on show. The question remains will it continue under the current conditions? You have to remember as well, that the "fan" base was boosted in the Premiership season simply by virtue of the fact that you had the "hangers-on" who came to Carrow Road sporting their Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal jerseys. Whilst numbers may drop if the bad run continues there are still are large proportion of fans who will still attend because they are, like Dicky and others, Norwich to the core. I''ll admit that Worthy has done well for the club, but from many a Worthy-outer he is being judged on the teams'' current run of results and that goes a long way to undoing the good reputation he has built up. The core fans will continue to come to Carrow Road whether Worthy stays or goes because fundamentally it is Norwich City, the football team, they are there to see! ...

But DD don''t we miss out the midfield when we play the big hoof. Clearly with the big hoof we need defenders who can perfect the big hoof, Primus, and strikers who can run their guts out trying to get on to the big hoof, Eastwood. Clearly that UEFA coaching badge comes in handy when instructing your team on how best to play the long ball up to the strikers. ...

Do you worst folks!! League Championship Bradford 2-2 Norwich 09-08-2003 English League Cup Northampton 1-0 Norwich 12-08-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-0 Rotherham 16-08-2003 League Championship Sheff Utd 1-0 Norwich 23-08-2003 League Championship Norwich 3-2 Milton Keynes 26-08-2003 League Championship Nottm Forest 2-0 Norwich 30-08-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-0 Burnley 13-09-2003 League Championship Gillingham 1-2 Norwich 16-09-2003 League Championship Stoke 1-1 Norwich 20-09-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-1 C Palace 27-09-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-1 Reading 30-09-2003 League Championship Wigan 1-1 Norwich 04-10-2003 League Championship West Ham 1-1 Norwich 15-10-2003 League Championship West Brom 1-0 Norwich 18-10-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-1 Derby 21-10-2003 League Championship Norwich 1-0 Sunderland 25-10-2003 League Championship Walsall 1-3 Norwich 01-11-2003 League Championship Norwich 3-1 Millwall 08-11-2003 League Championship Norwich 1-2 Watford 15-11-2003 League Championship Preston 0-0 Norwich 22-11-2003 League Championship Norwich 1-1 Coventry 25-11-2003 League Championship Norwich 1-0 Crewe 29-11-2003 League Championship Millwall 0-0 Norwich 06-12-2003 League Championship Norwich 4-1 Cardiff 13-12-2003 League Championship Ipswich 0-2 Norwich 21-12-2003 League Championship Norwich 1-0 Nottm Forest 26-12-2003 League Championship Derby 0-4 Norwich 28-12-2003 English FA Cup Everton 3-1 Norwich 03-01-2004 League Championship Norwich 0-1 Bradford 10-01-2004 League Championship Rotherham 4-4 Norwich 17-01-2004 League Championship Norwich 1-0 Sheff Utd 31-01-2004 League Championship Milton Keynes 0-1 Norwich 07-02-2004 League Championship Coventry 0-2 Norwich 14-02-2004 League Championship Norwich 1-1 West Ham 21-02-2004 League Championship Norwich 0-0 West Brom 02-03-2004 League Championship Norwich 3-1 Ipswich 07-03-2004 League Championship Cardiff 2-1 Norwich 13-03-2004 League Championship Norwich 3-0 Gillingham 16-03-2004 League Championship C Palace 1-0 Norwich 20-03-2004 League Championship Norwich 1-0 Stoke 27-03-2004 League Championship Burnley 3-5 Norwich 03-04-2004 League Championship Norwich 2-0 Wigan 09-04-2004 League Championship Reading 0-1 Norwich 12-04-2004 League Championship Norwich 5-0 Walsall 17-04-2004 League Championship Watford 1-2 Norwich 24-04-2004 League Championship Norwich 3-2 Preston 01-05-2004 League Championship Sunderland 1-0 Norwich 04-05-2004 League Championship Crewe 1-3 Norwich 09-05-2004 English Premier Norwich 1-1 C Palace 14-08-2004 English Premier Man Utd 2-1 Norwich 21-08-2004 English Premier Newcastle 2-2 Norwich 25-08-2004 English Premier Norwich 1-4 Arsenal 28-08-2004 English Premier Tottenham 0-0 Norwich 12-09-2004 English Premier Norwich 0-0 Aston Villa 18-09-2004 English League Cup Norwich 1-0 Bristol R 21-09-2004 English Premier Liverpool 3-0 Norwich 25-09-2004 English Premier Norwich 2-2 Portsmouth 02-10-2004 English Premier West Brom 0-0 Norwich 16-10-2004 English Premier Norwich 2-3 Everton 23-10-2004 English League Cup Newcastle 2-1 Norwich 27-10-2004 English Premier Man City 1-1 Norwich 01-11-2004 English Premier Norwich 1-1 Blackburn 06-11-2004 English Premier Charlton 4-0 Norwich 13-11-2004 English Premier Norwich 2-1 Southampton 20-11-2004 English Premier Birmingham 1-1 Norwich 27-11-2004 English Premier Norwich 0-1 Fulham 04-12-2004 English Premier Norwich 3-2 Bolton 11-12-2004 E

[quote]is get behind the team. The board is sticking with Worthy and this is not going to change in the near future. So why don''t we get behind the players and be that "12th man" that has done us so much g...[/quote] Dicky, I don''t disagree with you on getting behind the team. However, I do have to ask at what point do you as a supporter say "enough is enough", something is not right here and it needs to change for the sake of the club I hold so dear? If we get relegated would you turn around and say we could have made a change back in November and stopped this from happening? If we just miss out on relegation do you consider that the club is progressing, given that we''ve just had one season in the top flight? How can any of be happy that we''ve come so far only to fall so fast? Sure cheer the team on with all your voice but there''s nothing wrong in asking why has it all gone so pear shaped? ...

Pete, why not reset the poll each week before the kick-off of the next game. Keep the cumulative totals rolling along in the background but you get a week by week snapshot of the way fans are feeling. You could even plot the Worthy pro-rating against City''s league position ;-) ...

Pete, have considered implementing some kind of Worthy/fan barometer? Have a continuous poll that indicates the "popular" opinion on how the team or Worthy is doing. ...

[quote]Anyone thats ever employed anyone looks at their CV and what theyve done, before deciding to give them a job. Ever been to an interview and wondered why you didn,t get picked?[/quote] Darlo, don''t disagree that it''s the CV that you look at when you''re looking to get into a job or recruit someone. But it''s what you do when you''re there that means you stay in the job or not. And TwoSheds is right, it''s not what Worthy has done over the last three years it''s what he''s doing now that would lose him the job. Yes, he got us to the playoff final. Yes, he got us promotion as champions. Yes, he got us relegated. Yes, he''s turned promotion favourites into a bunch of no-hopers. Surely it''s this last bit that is the killer. ...

[quote]Most if not all of your posts publically condemn worthy as if he is public enemy number one.Do you honestly think he is that bad.in all worthys time at this club would you not say he has had a lot of ...[/quote] allways, I''d agree that we have a great deal to be thankful to Worthy for. And for their part the injuries are not helping the plight of the team at the moment. However, I would argue that he does have players available, albeit more junior, in the positions where injuries have hit. He continues to play players in positions that they are not used to: Charlton in the holding role normally played in by Safri Brennan at left-back whilst more suited to the left side of midfield role Plus he continues to ignore players in the reserves that could fill in. Why not give Rossi Jarvis a chance if his more natural role is central midfield. What worse could he do compared to the fare on show at Luton and QPR? And yes I realise we''re going to get the usual stuff about what would it do the youngsters confidence just like we had with Shackell. At the moment it''s all bull because the team/squad needs a lift. Bring in a new face instead of the usual tripe. Let''s face it Worthy''s confidence is shot. He''s tried all the tricks he knows and still the players let him down. The player''s confidence is probably beginning to tatter as well given they can''t see any guiding direction from the gaffer. Saturday will be the killer game. A win and the cracks are papered over once more. A loss and hell knows what sort of reception the boss and players will get. ...

Go buy a cheap batch GTG and then when it becomes too unbearable throw them on the pitch!!! ...

[quote]The thing that is wrong this season in my opinion is expectations, let''s face it this season is the first year in ages when the players have been EXPECTED to perform. Last year we were expected to get...[/quote] Ulf, how can you say the expectations were wrong. The team had just come off a run of games against Premiership opposition that almost saved their Premiership status. Look at who they got points against:English Premier Norwich 2-0 Man Utd 09-04-2005 English Premier C Palace 3-3 Norwich 16-04-2005 English Premier Norwich 2-1 Newcastle 20-04-2005 English Premier Norwich 1-0 Charlton 23-04-2005 English Premier Southampton 4-3 Norwich 30-04-2005 English Premier Norwich 1-0 Birmingham 07-05-2005 English Premier Fulham 6-0 Norwich 15-05-2005 Come on we took points off of Man U and Newcastle as well as crucial wins against teams that are more firmly rooted in the Premiership. Apart from the capitulation on the last day there was something to be hopeful about.Even with the off-season personnel changes there was a belief that promotion wasn''t beyond the team. But the truth of the matter is something clearly more chilling....

Hats off to you Dicky you''ve come out and been honest about what you''ve seen and honestly don''t know what''s to be done.Personally, I think the players have lost confidence in the manager for whatever reasons. There''s nothing worse than going into work hearing the same rhetoric from the man in charge and beginning to feel, yourself, that it ain''t worth it. Come on how many of us have felt like that at work?I think Worthy has to go, unfortunately. Yes, he''s done great for the club but he doesn''t appear to be able to do anything to spark some life back into the team. We''re still lacking that player leader in the Malky mould. Can''t imagine Hughes having the physical presence to give the team a good rollicking in the changing room.A new face at the helm often changes the mindset of the players. Some could argue that''s what Worthington brought when he first took over. It got the team rolling again and they simply carried on in the same vein. Unfortunately we''ve now got the other side of the coin and they''ve got into the losing habit and the go out "work hard" it''ll all come good isn''t cutting it anymore.As I said in other posts I think the cost issue is going to be the stumbling block here, unless Worthy willingly leaves. He''s currently a general prepared to do battle who has an army that couldn''t care less....

[quote]Rick Waghorn set it all out in his column of 17 September: http://new.pinkun.com/content/columns/RickWaghorn.aspx?brand=PINKUNOnline&category=RickWaghorn&tBrand=PINKUNOnline&tCategory=Ric...[/quote] After today''s result and another 3 points down the pan I think the cost of getting a new manager is going to be the telling factor in all of this.Thanks to Amarillo for highlighting Waghorn''s original article on this. I reckon it''s going to cost the club about £1M to terminate Worthy''s contract. Clearly if he voluntarily parts company with the club it should cost the club nothing or less, but I don''t think that is going to happen.Twin that with the cost of bringing in someone who may already be in a job and I think the January transfer window wouldn''t be able to offer a new manager anything due to the lack of funds. Unless of course there''s money to reinvest from player sales - another nightmare scenario.My apologies to those who suffer the insults that this thread holds, but the question is once more of importance given another loss.Sheff Wed at home next Saturday will be the make or break game....

[quote]I just finished posting about this on another thread seconds ago, I have a little read of this one and again see zipper of the "kick posting abuse out" signature slagging off anyone who backs the mana...[/quote] Sorry Crazy I''m going to defend Zip on that one. There are too many of the "Worthy backers" who cannot be bothered to explain the reasons why they believe the man is going to get the club back into the promotion race. Or even explain why they think he''s doing a good job. Instead they grace a discussion with a simple one-line retort as their counter argument. That really is tiring to read. I can guarantee to come on here at 10pm every evening to find a multitude of threads that have been added to with simple one-line retorts that add nothing to the discussion other than to "fire" up the posters who have posted the opposing view. The divide between the "believers" and "unbelievers" is simply growing with every match the team loses. And it''s not just here on the message board. ...

Crazy, you are so right. For a while now the board has been full of threads that start with promise of debate and degenerate into petty insult throwing. The post that you refer to isn''t one to be proud of. However, there are noters, I name no names, for whom reasoned debate doesn''t seem worthwhile. The proverbial one-line retort that adds nothing to a discussion seems to be the repeated recourse. As to your point about keeping the faithers - the phrase keeping the faith has become synonymous with supporting Worthy come hell or high water. As ZLF and others have so frequently pointed out, everyone of us is a City fan who wants the best for the club and for those who don''t appear to be keeping the faith there is obviously a gulf between what they see on the field of play and their expectations for the team/club. Even if City were top of the division at the moment there would still be those questioning the manager and the team, highlighting the negatives. That is simply because they believe that the negatives can be fixed to make a stronger Norwich City. Unfortunately, there appear to be far too many negatives at the moment that have not been addressed for a lengthy period - from our last promotion season in fact. A little moderation from all posters would be appreciated. AND a little more reasoned fighting for your beliefs would certainly help discussions. We aren''t all going to agree but we can at least agree to argue, constructively, our points of view. ...