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Morph

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  1. As a comparison here''s the first ten results of the promotion season. League Championship Bradford 2-2 Norwich 09-08-2003 League Cup Northampton 1-0 Norwich 12-08-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-0 Rotherham 16-08-2003 League Championship Sheff Utd 1-0 Norwich 23-08-2003 League Championship Norwich 3-2 Milton Keynes 26-08-2003 League Championship Nottm Forest 2-0 Norwich 30-08-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-0 Burnley 13-09-2003 League Championship Gillingham 1-2 Norwich 16-09-2003 League Championship Stoke 1-1 Norwich 20-09-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-1 C Palace 27-09-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-1 Reading 30-09-2003 So from 10 league games City were on: Pl:10 W:5 D:2 L:3 GF:16 GA:11 Pts:17 Compare that to this season and City are on: Pl:10 W:2 D:3 L:5 GF:8 GA:11 Pts:9 On the promotion season form we would be sitting in 5th place. And SteveM, history doesn''t count for anything when the team is performing as they currently are. They are quite simply underacheiving at present. Collectively the team and coaching staff has to shoulder the blame. Admittedly booing the team will not help, but for those who pay their £20+ for their tickets they''re looking for something from the product, which by all accounts, is not what they''re getting. The worrying thing from my perspective is that the long running problems that some posters here have so eloquently described, see ZLFs posts, have not been addressed in all the time that Worthy has been at the club. It''s taken some 10 games of this season before the issue of the central defensive partnership gets seriously looked at. ...
  2. Actually to be fair to Worthy (not that I''m a fan) this is being taken a little bit out of context. From the interview the words are: Goreham: Substitutions in the second half, Paul McVeigh came off. Some of the fans didn''t seem too happy about that. Worthington: I''m not bothered about what the fans say. I''m in charge. I make decisions with the coaching staff and that''s as straight forward and as simple as that. In the context of Goreham poser, Worthy''s answer is what you would expect. As Dicky pointed out Worthy is the man responsible for the team selection, tactics and substitutions, NOT the fans. Worthy and his staff made the decision to take McVeigh off. 24000 might not have agreed but as Worthy points out they''re opinion in this particular matter - doesn''t matter. Unfortunately for Worthington, as a sound bite, the quote "I''m not bothered about what the fans say. I''m in charge" is what is being reiterated. Taken out of it''s context it does seem to be quite a scathing, unfeeling attack on the fans from the man in charge. Combined with Goreham''s comment it Is no such thing. And for the record I would not consider myself one of the Worthy fan brigade. ...
  3. So after yesterday''s result and the post-match comments has Worthy finally crossed that crucial divide between being in a job and being out of one? ...
  4. OK, I''ve played quite a bit of local league soccer in my time, including several seasons in one of the local Yarmouth leagues. I wouldn''t say I''ve been coached other than by the various PE teachers at school, but when the various parties at City roll out the phrase "We need to get back to basics" what do they mean?Some fundamental basics to me:1. Pass to a person on your team when you''re in possession of the ball.2. Close down your opponent.3. Make a tackle when you''re in a position to do so.4. Move into space so your team-mates can pass to you.5. Attack the ball when challenging for crosses/high balls and so on.6. Don''t wait for the ball to bounce when it comes to you in the air.7. Play to the whistle - e.g. carry on and shoot even if you think you may have been off-side.8. Try to commit the opposition - running at an opponent tends to pull players out of position just as easily as movement off the ball.9. Don''t lose possession through poor control.Some team fundamentals:1. Maintain your set "x" lines going forward and tracking back.2. Don''t defend too deep.3. Move forward as a unit/move back as a unit - "x" lines up together, "x" lines back together.4. Don''t space your "x" lines (attackers, midfield, defenders) too far apart on the pitch - in other words attempt to compress the play.I''ve raised the question because I sat watching the coverage of the Plymouth game and whilst we won there were a couple of stand out things that struck me.a) too much space between the "x" linesb) the team didn''t move forward as a unit or back as unit - numerous times the space between midfield and attack was stretched or defense and midfieldc) not much movement into space to create passing opportunities - whilst you can argue the second goal came about after 16 passes I wouldn''t argue it was down to players being pulled out of position by great off the ball movement or incisive passing, more it was down to poor defending and a damned good cross d) didn''t see much tackling going on in the midfield to reclaim possession when it was lost - poor control by City players yes, poor passing maybe but tackling back, umm.What about the rest of you - what basics from your past are City not doing at the moment?...
  5. Here''s another name to consider although I''ll probably be locked in a cupboard and considered a closet Blues supporter............. Terry Butcher ...
  6. The posting populace still seems split over the managerial/coaching/team make-up of the club, but I want to know, from both sides of the house, where you draw the line with regards to making a change in the managerial/coaching staff.Many are saying they''ll back Worthington regardless this season. Others say he must go now. Some remain in between giving him until Christmas to turn things around. But how do you really feel?If we go on a run that sees us win 1 in every 3 matches is that good enough?If we continue the slide into lower table obscurity do you consider that acceptable?If we finish mid-table has enough been done?I''ve seen the words "small steps" bandied about by a number of posters with regard to progress from the club. Other''s have said one step forward, two steps backwards.From the perspective of a remote supporter who just sees the results and the subsequent tabular position of the club, I feel we''ve taken a huge step backwards. I expected us to be capable of staying up last year with the squad that had been put together. Even with the huge playing staff turnover at the start of this season I really did expect the club to be competitive. We''re not and unfortunately the buck really does stop at Worthington''s door irrespective of whether he solely to blame.So if you''re in Delia''s shoes, or Munby''s shoes or Wynn-Jones''s shoes, where do you draw the line? Top half by Christmas or you''re out the door Mr Worthington? Or simply make us competitive again and avoid relegation? Or is are you more harsh and think Mr Worthington you have three more games to show that you can handle the painful aspects of the job and know what to do to change things?...
  7. [quote]Sonyc I agree with everything you said (have said pretty much the same thing elsewhere) but your final prediction causes me some concern - if, sorry....IF we beat Ipswich that will merely confirm NW i...[/quote] breaker, the big worry for me is that City do beat Ipswich and the cracks are plastered over once more until we get another run of three or more defeats. An Ipswich victory is most likely to be the end of Worthy whether he wants it or not. And ronbol, whilst I realise nobody is coming up with any real concrete suggestions for a replacement keeping NW in position seems to merely delaying the inevitable unless of course, he can really turn it around. There has to be someone who would relish the chance to get their hands on the squad we have. Watford''s Boothroyd - would he come back given the way Watford are playing Luton''s Newell - flying high in the Championship at present Swansea''s Jackett - doing well in League One Brentford''s Allen - also doing well in League One Blackburn''s Bowen - although currently only assistant ...
  8. [quote]Plastic scouser it''s not a matter of defending the guy, he puts a Norwich City shirt on, always gives 100% even if it'' not good enough on occasions. Most think he''s not upto the job and I respect your...[/quote] "If you have ever been upto colney and watched them training you would soon see flem is one of the hardest training players there, a true professional." Not maligning your comment in any way Ronbol, but to me the line above is the telling one. It worries me that NW puts too much faith on what goes on in training during the week and then goes on to ignore a player''s matchday performances. If a player doesn''t cut repeatedly on the field of play then that player should be rested to give someone else a chance. Who''s to say that McVeigh wasn''t dropped because he didn''t put in the effort in Monday''s training session and got left out last night because of it. ...
  9. [quote]I agree: constructive criticism good, mindless ranting bad. Getting things off your chest on this board good, booing the team at the ground bad. Maintaining some consistency in your views good (hi ZLF...[/quote] Actually RobertinManilla, might I ask what you expected the results to be for the first six games of this season? Expectations have unfortunately been raised as a result of the "success" of the last two years - Champions in 2003/04, into the Premiership through 2004/05. That''s irrespective of what some supporters have identified as weaknesses in the team - ZLF, has been consistent in his analysis of what he perceives is wrong. So it''s no surprise to me that some posters are a little unhappy here about the start to the season. Reading the forum during the summer months there were several posters who already had City pencilled in as 2005/06 Champions. As you rightly point out this division is harder to get out of than many people think. The over-riding question though is where has it all gone wrong? Is it simply that existing problems that were papered over in 2003/04 and 2004/05 have finally come home to roost? A dispassionate analysis of the team''s play over the six games this season would be appreciated by those of us who can''t get to watch the games - and I emphasise dispassionate analysis. ...
  10. [quote]Ok. Things are awful. And yes we are depressed. But let us do a Kipling and keep our heads when all about are losing theirs! There is too much panicky stuff at present. (and yes I do see why) Howev...[/quote] Vic, I think the telling match will be the match against Ipswich. To lose in a humiliating fashion to the local rivals could sound the death knell for Mr Worthington. As it stands he needs to do something to get the ship back on track before he loses the confidence of the players. He''s already losing the confidence of the supporters. If it continues I don''t think it will be long before the players begin to doubt him. ...
  11. [quote]The reasons Worthy shouldn''t go are not because of what he''s done (that''s in the past, no room for sentimentality in football) but because it''s too late, too costly and too bold a move for our board t...[/quote] Actually I disagree with your comments. Football is now a business. When the product becomes difficult to sell - poor performances, poor results and the like, then the managers of that business, the club''s board, are left with the decision on whether or not they change the product. As it stands Worthington is currently a part of producing that product. In fact I would say he is integral to the product. When the product becomes not fit for the purpose, "entertainment", then something has to change. In football, the easiest change to make is to bring in a new manager to add some fresh life to that failing product. The product currently on offer is clearly leaving a sour taste in some supporters mouths, "loyal" supporters and/or otherwise. What''s the quote so often bandied about - the only thing certain in life is death and taxes. Worthy does not have a god given right to a job with the club if he''s not producing the goods. So don''t go thinking that Worthy will alwsys be there. If the board is serious about the club then there will come a point where his future WILL be debated. And by the way why is it too late and too costly to consider changing the manager? ...
  12. [quote]Ok so most players desperate for a move have already gone, I think we know we would have to look to lower league talent to bulk out the squad and I think given that Morrison is going to palace we need...[/quote] You know what happened last time he hurried to bring in a centre half. We got one and played him as a centre forward!!!! ...
  13. [quote]Can no one remember the beautiful passing football we played under this mans sadly all to short reign. The quality signing that he brought in the club will always take some beating. If only he''d staye...[/quote] Don''t want to say it Rasputin but some time down the road there may be a note along the lines of: "Can no one remember the beautiful passing football we played under Worthy''s reign and how we capitulated to our fate and sealed our relegation with that woeful showing at Fulham on the last day of the Premiership season. The quality signings that he brought to the club will always be remembered, for their inability to adapt, their falling out with the manager and their playing in positions they were completely unfamiliar with. If only he''d stayed maybe we would have bounced straight back at the first attempt, but it''s all water under the bridge now." ...
  14. I wondered how long before that O''Neill''s name came up. Personally I think he''s the sort of manager that could take City to the next level. Tactically astute. A man who seems to get something more out of a team than the sum of it''s parts. Some would argue he''s had success at a club that has had cash to splash and in a league that many would describe as a pale imitation of the English Premiership, but we must not forget that he has managed to bring some level of success in Europe. However, he''s left the game at the moment for personal reasons so persuading him to come back into management might well prove to be difficult. ...
  15. [quote]loyal supporters. All this Worthy out, sack the board, players are crap business is extremely harmful to the club. We need to be patient because we know we have the players/squad/manager/board to get...[/quote] Dicky, whilst I applaud your call to arms for loyal support I think you''re turning on people who are loyal supporters who post here in the forum. You''ve tarred the detractors in here with the same brush that you tar the boo boys at Carrow Road. The boo boys are there simply because the team isn''t meeting their expectations for results. We are still equal second favourites to win the Championship this season with bookies William Hill. We''ve been like that from before the season in the bookies eyes. Secondly, if it hasn''t escaped your notice we''ve just come down from a season in the countrys toughest division - the Premiership. So the expectation for the side to perform against the lesser Championship sides is huge. And yes, I would consider Coventry and Crewe lesser sides. City have been found wanting in those initial games and that''s why the boo boys are there. The reason the detractors are here in the forum is because in their eyes the deficiencies of the last season have not been addressed. Last season we conceded on average 2 goals a game and mustered just over 1 per game in reply. Defensively we were poor. In the off-season City dispensed with the services of two fullbacks (Helveg and Edworthy) and four midfielders (Holt, Mulryne, Jonson, Francis). In response the full back issue has been addressed with like-for-like replacements. However, the key loss in the middle of the park hasn''t really been sorted. You could argue that Hughes for Holt, Jarrett for Mulryne, Marney for Jonson are all like-for-like replacements, but the loss of Francis is more significant than many may believe. At the same time the real issue about defensive fraility remains. An aging club captain and defensive "mainstay" is a year older. His protege, Doherty(?), remains unused and untried. So many posters continue to ask why hasn''t anything been done about it? Those detractors to Worthy and the team are loyal, they just expect a bit more based on what has gone before. They want the club to continue to move forward. That means getting results against lesser teams and being in with a shout of promotion, I''d even go as far as saying getting promotion. In retort you offer the detractors nothing other than "be loyal", "stop whining" but don''t offer us an explanation of why what you see on the pitch shows that there''s nothing to worry about. Come on explain for us "armchair supporters" why Worthy has got it all right and how City are really going to pull it together, because I don''t appear to have drunk the same "Gatorade" as you. ...
  16. [quote]Not quite what I said but thanks for trying. Perhaps I should leap off St Andrews car park after another home draw - would free up a seat for the next person on the waiting list. Perhaps I should sp...[/quote] Nobby, can I ask a question of you (and apologies for Dicky for taking this thread off at a tangent). You say, "What happens if we don''t get promoted? Do we all top ourselves or burn Worthy at the stake. No we grit our teeth and have another go." Would you consider that a step backwards for the club or do you not care? Would you contend that we should, on paper at least, be in with a shout of being up near the top of the division come season''s end? If we''re not do you think the club under the current coaching staff is still moving forward? See, personally, I want us to be progressing to the next level. None of this one season up, one season down stuff. I want us to be up there as a team solidifying it''s position in the top league in the country. We won''t be a Chelsea, Arsenal or Man U because simply we''re a provincial club. I don''t believe we could bring in the 60000+ crowds every week. But could City be a Charlton or a Bolton? Sure they can. Do you think that also or do you just not care where City are as long as you can see them play and win the odd game or two? ...
  17. [quote]And get in who? No answers so far.[/quote] First off I''m not advocating that Worthy should go but.....I have a question for those who post here that believe that "Worthy can do no wrong". Note that I''ve put that last bit in quotes as I''m trying to be tongue in cheek.At what point would you consider Worthy to outlived his tenure at the club?Several posters continue to remind us that he took the club from bottom of the table obscurity under Hamilton to Premiership participants. But when would you consider a change from his style of team management, if ever?...
  18. Once again we''ve seen a lot of threads this season, like last, with posters at apparent logger heads over Worthy''s management of the team. And as with last season it''s probably caused by peoples expectations for the club this season as much as anything else. So what do you expect from the club this season? For me: a) Exceeds expectations - promoted back to the Premiership in one of the automatic promotion spots. b) Meets expectations - in playoff spots with more than a 50% chance of successful promotion through that mechanism. c) Fails to meet expectations - outside the playoff spots but above a midtable finish. d) Abysmal failure - below midtable. For a side that has just come off of a Premiership season to finish this season below midtable would be absolutely appalling. With either c) or d) I believe the club has to sit down and discuss seriously whether Worthy and his staff can take the club to the next level. Standing by the coaching team can only go on so long as forward progress appears to being made. Going backwards doesn''t cut it but it doesn''t mean the managers head either, just an adjustment of the coaching team and techniques. So let''s take some of the emotion out of this and you give us what your expectations are for the season. ...
  19. I might be seen as a bit of a heretic with this post given the wealth of negativity that''s flowing following yesterdays result, but I actually think Nigel had it tactically right yesterday. It was like he''d read one of my posts from earlier in the week in the "Huckerby is not a left midfielder" thread. Now I didn''t go, I confess and yes I had to make do with Radio Norfolk commentary. Maybe one of the travelling fans can comment. But I got the impression that the team had a better shape across the middle of the park yesterday. A better balance even with Marney wide right and Brennan wide left. Both offering suitable cover to the two fullbacks. Huckerby appeared also to be a problem with him drifting out of the centre and making him difficult to pick-up. However, where it falls down was the lack of support to Ashton. His knock ons, his knock backs and so on, were not picked up by City players. The man you would expect to pick them up, Huckerby, had drifted wide. By all accounts City created a good number of chances to win the game by 3-1. Niemi''s save from Brennan. The header onto the post. The ball cleared off the line from Ashton. Luck just didn''t go our way. That said where I think Nigel did stumble was in the tactical substitutions. Ok, so take a defender off for a striker - Charlton for McKenzie. But at that point I would have gone for three at the back and retained the shape in the middle of the park with Marney, Jarrett, Safri and Brennan. Push McKenzie up front alongside Ashton and leave Huckerby to roam. Unfortunately he didn''t do that and immediately removed one of the supply lines to the strikeforce - Brennan. He then compounded the issue by bringing off Colin for Thorne and pushed Marney to right back. Where did Thorne go? So in this last aspect Nigel continues to show tactical naivety. A reluctance to abandon the old 4-4-2 setup he so clearly loves. It''s OK being adventurous with the substitutions but be prepared to adapt your shape as well. Going back to Tumbleweed''s original post - I do agree that the clock should now be ticking on Nigel and the staff, but as many others have already asked - we must give him at least 10 games. Yesterday we were once again unlucky - penalty and missed chances. As Huckerby said someone is going to get a clobbering from City. The question is when!! ...
  20. OK Andrew N answer me this. When you first saw the headline about Morrison signing on the Pink-Un homepage what was your initial reaction. Come on your initial reaction. See what concerns me in all of this is we''ve filled a need we didn''t have. We''ve bought another striker when indications are that we were in more need of either a young central defender or a central midfield player. So it''s no surprise that so many posters come on here expressing concern that the one striker that would conceivably attract interest from other clubs, Ashton, would be going. To me, at least, it was a logical reaction to the signing. Whilst it might be wailing I don''t see how any of it is whinging and whining. ...
  21. St. John, I''d love to offer you words of comfort on this one but afraid not. My immediate reaction to the headline on the Pink''Un site was twofold: 1) Why do we need another striker? 2) What does this mean about the future of Ashton? I suspect, and hope I''m wrong, that a deal has been done behind closed doors for Ashton to move to a bigger club either immediately or in the January transfer window. I sincerely hope that is not the case, but the purchase of another striker ranks up there alongside the purchase of a third able keeper before the start of the Premiership season. Fortunately that time round Green stayed. ...
  22. [quote]If you play in midfield of course you *should* run back and defend, its part of the job. However, Hucks is our most potent threat going forward (yes we do rely on him too much) and we need him to cons...[/quote] Putney, it does beg the question then as to why the club persists with playing him in that position. Worthy seems to have the mindset that he needs two "out-and-out" strikers, playing with one isn''t an option. He may even believe that Huckerby isn''t a striker and his threat comes from playing him in a deeper role so that he can build up his run into the opposition half. Unfortunately, I don''t think Worthy has bought off on the fact that by playing Huckerby in his wide left role he sacrifices some defensive protection that he would get from a left midfield player. Some variation of Huckerby''s role would be good from the perspective of giving the opposition something to think about. Playing up front for one game at the expense of Leon. Play him just off the two strikers for another game. Then play him wide left some other times. BUT, don''t play him wide left all the while as he becomes easier to stop. If City had two credible wide threats then double-teaming Huckerby wouldn''t be an option, but City don''t so to put two men on Huckerby isn''t such a difficult choice to make for opposition teams. It''s no doubt that he''s a fantastic attacking threat. I just don''t think the coaching staff have been flexible enough in his use. ...
  23. "I`m not into bashing Worthy ... there`s been much talk of where the buck stops ? and , to my way of thinking , the buck stops with the players !!!! its THEY who have to earn the silly money they get" - sheded Reading the post in another thread from sheded made me think about the question where does the buck stop at City? All of us could throw our hands in the air, whether we were there or not, at the 6-0 result against Fulham at the end of last season. I''m sure we could throw our hands in the air at some of our other results under Worthy and all the management teams that have proceeded him. But it raises that question about who is responsible for a teams poor performance? Worthy clearly thought the team picked for Fulham was the right team. He picked an 11 that he thought would do the job. He picked team tactics that he similarly thought would do the job. It didn''t because ultimately the team let him, and the supporters, down - big time. Was it poor preparation? Was it poor prematch motivation? When it comes to sackings the buck ultimately stops with the manager as he is judged on his teams results, but what can he do once he''s sent his 11 onto the "battlefield"? I''ve always believed that ultimately it''s down to the manager, but players can be like petulant kids who strut around with that arrogant air sometimes and then simply go on the pitch and perform like sulky children who couldn''t care less. What does the gaffer do about that? If he can''t see it before the match - not a lot. 11 sulkers doesn''t leave him enough options with substitutions. The thing that City don''t appear to have that they have had in the past is a on the field general. Somebody that can spot when things are going wrong and make an adjustment without words from the manager. Think back over the "generals" that City have had that have made a difference - Forbes/Stringer, Bruce, Roberts, Mackay. Do we have one now? Would they make a difference? What do you think? ...
  24. Interesting discussion this one. It''s a bit "can''t live with him, can''t live without him". How about you play Hucks up front with Deano for the first 60 minutes of a game at the expense of Leon. If Hucks is tiring or City hold the lead bring Hucks off and give Leon 30 minutes to go out there and harry the hell out of the opposition back four? In his place on the left hand side of midfield you give a game to either McVeigh, Brennan or even Charlton. Alternatively you find a quality central midfield player and play Safri on the left with Hughes in the holding role. When he plays do you think Hucks causes the rest of the team to stop thinking about other attacking options? Does he cause them to opt for the "easy" option and simply give him the ball? ...
  25. [quote]This message was incorrectly posted (by me) to the ''Transfer Talk'' site. It should now appear where I first intended. Sorry! A couple of complimentary comments with other suggestions so far but w...[/quote] Yellow that is a really good post. I don''t think we can ignore that loads of people are disappointed with the results in the first three games. On paper, and it was just on paper, 7 points didn''t really seem beyond the club. However, the reality is much harsher. We seem to have forgotten how difficult the division is to get out of. Those 9 years in the wilderness seem to have been lost from memory because of that one season in the glory-land. I am concerned about the points you raised about the coaching staff though. "3. The manager and coaches need to actively try and improve certain flaws ... 4. Creativity in team selection and tactics when things aren''t going well ... 6. Coaches to encourage Hughes to focus on his touch and vision and not be afraid to play the difficult ball ..." I''ll ask a question of the rest of the noting populace (quite clearly I never see a match) of those three points of YRs original post that I highlighted, how many do you believe Worthy and his staff really address? Number 4 is a crucial one for me. Of the times that I have watched City on a full recorded match they have shown an inability to adapt. Stifle the attacking threat of Huckerby and the team seem unable to try something different. In that respect alone Worthy has to be prepared to be more flexible in the way he uses his tactics. If Huckerby is being tailed by two players make a change that means he''s not restricted to the left hand side of the park - bring off one of the strikers and play a left sided midfield player then giving Hucks freedom to roam. In the promotion season against West Brom at home I watched the full game and was disappointed in the lack of ideas from City. They''re going to come up against lots of teams this season that shut up shop and play for a draw. The staff and team need to be adaptable enough to change their tactics to try and break the opposition down. That extra 2 points could ultimately be the difference between being outside the promotion spots or the playoff spots. As supporters we can see these things I''m very concerned that the staff don''t. What''s more alarming is that the inflexibility has been there for the last season and a half. I''m worried that it''s going to continue into this season. The other thing I''d like to see from Worthy is a belief in the youth system. He seems to have ignored the prospects that the academy system brings through the club. Shackell has obviously been the exception. So in that respect I fear your point 7 would also be a forlorn hope. Personally I''m of the opinion that if a player is good enough then he should have the chance irrespective of his age. ...
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