Leaderboard

I always laugh at those who say "if you come to England, learn English" when they're ex-pats. Often in Spain. And can't speak Spanish.

The kind of toxic narcissism that Trump displays is often seen in dictators and leaders of cults such as the Moonies, and some people find it irresistibly attractive. They're worshipped like gods, and that's what they really want - Trump doesn't care about Nancy Pelosi or Black Lives Matter except as a means to manipulate his followers and feed his insatiable ego. It never ends well.

Trouble is how many of the 504,000 are genuinely ready to contribute to the economy and how many will take years of acclimatisation into the UK before contributing? We lost thousands of workers from the EU who genuinely made our lives better with their hard work. We blocked these workers and opened the door for others. So much for controlling the boarders, more like shutting the EU door with massive benefits to our country and opening a chance door which has cost us billions if not trillions! Boris should be hung drawn and quartered for what he’s done to these great countries of the UK.

I would love Kings Lynn to get through and draw us.

I ain’t going down any salt mines

@BigFish yes, TV money (or media rights income) is the dominant income stream, but the rules are changing under FFP (or its equivalent) with spending on players remuneration to be limited. Maybe not 70% of revenue immediately, but the aspiration is there. Given we apparently missed out on a couple of targets recently for the want of a couple of million quid, with sponsorship being a moral hazard and with aging facilities it really is a necessity to replace the City Stand, which in my view would address all of that. Or we do nothing and condemn our club to being also-rans in the Championship (the 27th biggest club indeed). I would argue with you over the income stream to recover the expenditure not being there. Sure, not as things stand, but this shouldn't be the hurdle that others make out is unassailable. The project can be designed, marketed and operated as a separate self funded activity within the club, then once built generate enough cash to repay the capital build as per scheduled whilst contributing to playing squad development. It does not have to impact on squad development during the build if funded correctly. After all we're not looking at a North London style stadium rebuild here, just the re-devlopment of the smallest stand. We can argue back and forth on this. My fellow FPA's have already pointed out the successes previous capital builds have made. I also have personal experience of capital builds which have been designed to deliver similar outcomes within similar restrictions. Trust me, it can be done if the will is there, the right project partners are appointed, hard work put in and with attention to detail involving all stakeholders. The outcome will definitely impact on what current supporters experience in following the club - some good, some bad, some preconceptions having to be amended and some surprises with a good deal of compromise from others. We have Tilly's main point for not doing it being where will the current City Standers go during re-build. Again, it is possible the South Stand being the obvious place, most likely in league matches away fans and casual tickets reduced and relocated. I accept it may alienate a few, irreversibly so. But the outcome for the majority should maintain, ideally improve, our status in the football continuum. @nutty nigel I do look back at what has happened, but try to learn lessons to inform the next steps. I appreciate I may appear to be fixated at times, but truly I feel the club has not worked hard enough off the pitch to support what has happened on it. My fear is we are in great risk of losing what little status in the football world we have. My argument above is lost if the vast majority of our supporters is happy with that. Given the current "disconnect" the evidence is there that a majority are not. If nothing else, Attanasio's arrival heralds a fresh look at things. I for one am excited by what comes next.

Note that figure does not include the 35-40 thousand so-called "illegal" immigrants/ asylum seekers arriving by boats. The "legitimate" figures make the "illegal" look virtually insignificant. The anti-immigrant Brexiteers will have a heart attack when they realise that those "wonderful" new trade deals we are negotiating with countries like India will depend upon a massive increase in the numbers of immigrants from those countries being allowed to reside in the UK.

This is how I see it. In 2008-09 it was because the club's bankers decided to rationalise their portfolio and in particular reduce their exposure to risky lending like to football clubs in response to HM Govt asking banks to improve their solvency ratios. Like you I do not think we were in danger of falling over completely financially, but the relationship with the bankers had practically reached a nadir, which was demonstrated by a quick change of bankers thereafter. The Co-op who up to that point had more exposure to football clubs than any other bank, also reduced their exposure drastically (although not quick enough to prevent them from having real problems a couple of years later). Leeds Utd and Wednesday were amongst those hit similarly, interesting they both took the route of seeking external and ultimately overseas investors, one has recovered the other is only just showing signs of recovery. I've seen the discussion about the club being cash poor although asset heavy and accept that has been the club's position and why Smith & Jones are fixated on maintaining positive cashflow. They are "frit" of it all coming back on them and they lose their wealth. Who can blame them, but ultimately this model has led to stagnation at the club. By the middle of the last decade, the lending market was extremely competitive with ever increasingly innovative and relatively cheap products. The funding of the improvements at Colney showed how popular these products could be. Despite the high voucher rate offered to lenders, the positive return on the pitch in the end actually ensured the project was delivered relatively cheaply. Wimbledon achieved a brand-new ground cheaply with a similar product aimed at fans. Essentially both projects were delivered with a sharing of risk and reward across the whole supporter base (and in Norwich's case I would argue well beyond). A less conservative ownership would have seen the success of the Colney bond and immediately turned to support the City Stand re-build with a combination of a similar bond combined with more traditional lending products. The time was then but have we missed out totally. Looking forward, sure interest rates have seen a large hike recently, but Petriix they are already reducing, mortgage rates are already back below 6% which is less than the rate on the Colney bond! Yesterday's news filtering out was that UK Plc was actually performing better than many commentators had thought, the pound has already clawed back half its recent losses against the dollar, the Govt's desire to dampen demand now known to be mainly a wage suppression tactic, as from March inflationary pressures from fuel etc. will go into a strong reversal unless hostilities in Ukraine spill over into other territories. Indeed, I can see Attanasio now rubbing his hands at the thought of taking control in 12 to 24 months' time and taking advantage of a return to a competitive lending market. The difference from him doing this compared to Smith & Jones will be due to what Parma & Purple have discussed about Attanasio - he will extract the fullest value possible from the new asset, whereas Smith & Jones may well have failed to spot how to do that, resulting in supporters paying ever more in ways they would never have contemplated in the past to the club. All to play for financially still?

The implication of any comparison between Smith and Jones' relationship with Norwich and the Glazer's relationship with Man U is ridiculous. Man Utd was a profitable business that the Glazers essentially purchased with the club's own money to extract all of the profits into their own pockets; Smith and Jones bought into a club struggling financially with their own money going into the club. The Glazers are parasites; Smith and Jones are not, and neither is Attanasio based on his record at Milwaukee and the manner in which his involvement has started here.

He must have been taking on some pretty s*** employees, and if his decision making was that bad when taking on new staff then that does not bode well for his position in government. The next to accuse him are his private secretaries who he would have had a say in putting in position. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63739105

I agree. He was signed under Farke's time here and even he couldn't get him into the side ahead of midfielders such as Kenny.

Picks in cheers.

Round 1 of the group games and it's been the tippers whose called the draws that made the difference. Out of 16 games we have Aggy leading on 13 points chased by Nutty Nigel on 12 points. Great picking Guys 13 Points - @Aggy 12 Points - @nutty nigel 11 Points - @Keyneton Canary, @Branston Pickle 10 Points - @twidio, @Elbrow 9 Points - @Peregrine Shorts, @NFN FC 8 Points - @KiwiScot 7 Points - @hepphep, @shefcanary Remember to get in your picks for Round 2 starting tomorrow.

You rate Ipswich don’t you? Former player or closet binner? 😘

Been a few times. Went as a youngster with friends when we were standing in the end behind their goal (north stand?) for a night game. Great laugh and it seemed our pen was absolutely packed with what can only be described as a very 'lively bunch' of city supporters.

Brazil are winning this tournament

Let me be clear, the reference to the Glazers was only to indicate the real world importance - not mythical or hypothetical - of the share value gain for @nutty nigel. This is where the £4bn - £5bn they - as individuals, not the club - now stand to receive comes from. The use of Pik notes and reverse leverage was an example at the extreme end of the spectrum of aggressive borrowing for context. Not an endorsement of it, or even necessarily a rejection of a very conservative approach. Manchester United is also certainly recognised as a profitable company, which has not been typical in football. It is also well understood that typically - though not necessarily - individuals own shares. It should however be noted that football club owners - who may own shares individually in an annually loss-making football club business - may still make a fortune selling their shares. This is the equity gain. Norwich have lost money - or perhaps been self-sustaining, or made a very little profit - for 25 years. Nevertheless the original (say) £5m input is now worth (say) £50m upon sale. Other fans of other clubs might see an owner - say Mike Ashley - ‘making’ this kind of profit on shares and ask why he didn’t make a quid-pro- quo investment in the club. Particularly if he had promised ‘never to take a penny out’ Thus ‘leveraging’ the individual’s ‘theoretical’ share value gain for use - which is real upon selling - in the company might well be considered a reasonable expectation of a football club owner in context. Parma @GMF @BigFish @littleyellowbirdie @shefcanary @essex canary @PurpleCanary

Why are Brazil celebrating every goal like it is the world Cup final winning one? They're just goals in the first round group match, against Serbia! 🤨

Long article Around 90,000

3 times but not for many many years. I don't think I've seen us score, let alone win 😂

You keep bringing it up mate, for the record I don’t want it to happen, I just don’t trust our absolute state of a manager with it.

Which posters have actually been to a derby at their place... Some do seem too frit to go.

I will watch Brazil tonight as they have always been the greatest to me. It wouldn't be a WC without them. But I don't believe this anywhere near a great Brazilian team.

Those who repent can stay above ground and hoe beet.

Nearly a Greeno moment at the end 🤣

He may have got a toe to the ball, but the defender didn't foul him, Ronaldo ran into him. Ronaldo's face after it was awarded told you that. YEEEEESSSSSS! GET IN.

This tourno has been played in such good spirit and then Portugal turn up.

Ipswich at home please.

Don't get me wrong, @shefcanary, I am not arguing against redevelopment. I was answering a different question from @nutty nigel about why the City Stand wasn't redeveloped. The possible involvement of MA does move the dial on this; he has financial firepower and an absence of sentimentality not open to S&J. It would require a degree of ruthless financial reengineering and inconvience that many fans would find upsetting. Be careful for what you wish for. But that doesn't mean I think it cannot, or indeed should not be done. Although it should be acknowledged that there is an element of risk for all involved.

Different players, Sorensen when fit and given the run he had last season started to show what he is about, to say McLean is better is daft, fitter definitely, the issue with Sorensen is he’s too injury prone and when he is injured he takes months to recover!

To use the Club’s terminology, there’s standard seats (the majority) and premium seats (the lounges and central seats in the City and South Stands, which are charged at higher rates. Most clubs operate similar pricing structures and it’s likely that any redevelopment of the City Stand, whether over or behind the existing structure, would result in increased revenues per seat once completed.

Ticket sales are outstripped by TV income in the top flight, but when in the Premier League we have traditionally been right at the bottom of the TV income ladder. Greater capacity would make a difference in comparison to our mid- and bottom-table rivals, not least because larger crowds bring in extra revenue from catering and commercial. There is a reason why clubs with incomes way above what we have ever achieved still want to increase capacity. There is also the valid argument that the lack of casual tickets when he team is doing well (and this has applied in the Championship as well as in the EPL) risks losing a generation of new fans. It is true that when Bowkett gave some figures at least ten years ago now for redeveloping the City Stand the assumption was the whole thing would be knocked down, with a start from scratch. But recently, given the purchase of the old Carrow Road, the club has talked about the possibility of building a second tier on top of the existing one.

No one remotely rational will be surprised by this dreadful collapse in government standards. It was inevitable from the very moment the Tory Party membership voted to make leader and PM someone they knew to be a compulsive liar with a history of racist, homophobic, and corrupt behaviour. They were even warned by respected Tory traditionalists like Oborne and Hastings (who had both made the mistake to employ him) that the man was not remotely fit to be an MP let alone leader and PM. However, the membership seemed to take particular delight in inflicting this degenerate into a position of ultimate power over the life of the nation. If one were to be kind one might say they were fooled into thinking his trademark buffoonery was merely as sign that he was some kind of harmless "Del Boy", lovably dodgy but ultimately well motivated. But we shouldn't be kind; his buffoonery was conclusively exposed early on as a pathetic attempt to disguise a malevolent ego. Remember that appearance on Have I Got News For You, when he was replayed the telephone call between himself and his pal Darius Guppy conspiring to have a journalist violently assaulted? I could, of course, recount very many other examples that preceded his elevation to the highest office in the land. So, we should not be surprised at all that many of his cabinet appointees are now being outed as abusers of power. After all, they sat with him at the cabinet table when he told them that the government's response to his mate Owen Paterson being found guilty of multiple breaches of the rules on lobbying should not be condemnation of Paterson but a concerted effort to overthrow the rules of parliament and get Paterson off the hook. They also watched on as he allowed Tory chums to fleece the country of multiple billions during a national crisis (as the Mone story and countless others have revealed). How sad and shocking that none of this is considered surprising anymore. Hopefully the Tories will be suitably punished at the next election, they will certainly deserve nothing more than being wiped out for the depths of ethical degeneracy they have made commonplace in the conduct of political life in this dispirited country.

@shefcanary personally, I think that the conservative approach can be argued both ways. On the one hand it has undoubtedly resulted in a high degree of stability for the Club, to the point where the outside perception within the game is that the Club is very well run. Four promotions to the Premier League in the past 12 years would support that view. The flip side, which is where I suspect that you are coming from, is that they have been too cautious, too happy with the status quo and, arguably, not progressive enough to take the Club forwards. Again, personally, I don’t think that the non-executive directors have challenged the executive team enough over recent years. It was only just before Ben Kensell departed that there was talk of a stadium plan. This all seems to be about to change with the Attanasio appointment.

As for the bit in bold, I'll say this: there's no evidence for it re. positivity. There have been some attempts in sociological research to raise religion onto a higher footing but the correlation/causation fallacy is always a primary stumbling block. Haven't followed it in too much detail, but also suspect there would be weaknesses with those who initially were one state (initial non-believers but changed, or initially believers but changed) not being adequately covered in the results. As for your reason for existence question, someone whose name escapes me had a great answer for this - the purpose of life is simply to live. After that, it's tabula rasa.

It seems that they are as inept at this as they are at everything else. 504,000 All the ones we want left or aren't coming in the required numbers (nurses, care, hospitality, agriculture) it seems and these 504,000 presumably aren't ones we do need - or is our labour predicament much, much, worse than even I suspect. Another policy failure.

Having read some of the comments about shares and their potential (past) valuations, I think two separate things are being conflated. First, the shares are assets belonging to two individuals, not the Club, which do not produce any income in terms of dividends. Their ability to underwrite the costs associated with such funding was probably prohibitive. Second, whilst it would be possible to charge the shares, with a guarantee against the Club’s income, that would have undoubtedly come with a significant risk premium. Additionally, the securitisation market headed South in the 2008-09, as a consequence of the banking crisis. What would have been an expensive form of funding at the time, due to the associated risk, would have become even more difficult, if not impossible, thereafter for a few years. It probably became a risk that they weren’t willing to take.

Just a reminder to enter tips for Round 2 of the group games as today is the last day of Round 1 with Round 2 starting tomorrow. If you're unsure there is a guide to help halfway down the thread, but you're looking for a link saying Round 2 to the upper right of the selections page. Remember to save each round individually before moving to the next round.

Oh yes, their other song 🤣

And on a wider point, there has been a distinct lack of stability at the club revenue wise so they haven't been able to invest against long term future income. If we had stabilised in the Premier League for 4-5 seasons I'm certain that the new stand would have been built by now.

Exactly, and it worked. Because xG was able to identify likelihood of results beyond just table positioning, where previously xG was used to make money out of bookies. Before the bookies took on xG stats, those involved in xG were able to make serious money out of identifying value from odds where others couldn't.

So stats are good but only the good ones. The bad ones are bad?

Those 2 are busy getting over the 2-0 defeat to Portsmouth in the EFL trophy.

Doesn't surprise me. After all, she's one of those who thinks there's a culture 'war' to be had when in reality it's a case of the likes of her talking provocative crap and plenty of others showing where she's misguided. She is right re. slow processing though. That's an area that's needed looking at for a long time.

There is one Brexit benefit coming about. I found one! (Clipped from today's iNews). And taking things in all together it fits really nicely. It makes sense. 100%😂

It is absurd. What I read seemed to suggest the call comes down to the team doctors, rather than an independent medical professional, which just won't work- they don't seem capable of standing up to the players and making the decision for them.

I thought Crescent Capital just primarily purchases/underwrites and packages up sub prime and distressed debts as an investment opportunity to financial institutions, nothing 'left field' or unusual about it all, neither is it particularly high risk. The financial crisis of 2008/09 was caused primarily because some unscrupulous financial institutions were packaging up and selling these types of debts as AAA grade / low risk investments, largely without suitable punishment or consequence. I still don't see any link at all between Crescent Capitals activities and Norwich City Football Club, people seem to be buying into the idea that we can somehow tap into their clients funds, we can't... that is frankly ludicrous. The only link between Crescent Capital and Mark Anastasio that might be relevant is that the latter might have more appetite to invest more of his personal wealth into our club if the former, his primary business, remains in good shape and performs well. There is no magic money tree at Crescent Capital or any means through which they can misappropriate clients funds, Anastasio has invested in Norwich City football club not Crescent Capital, they are two distinct entities. Besides, he's a co-founder of Crescent Capital, and the other co-founder who remains in the business hasn't bought any Norwich City shares. He'll probably get fed up with Norwich fans talking about Crescent Capital all the time, did Newcastle fans look at the Fraser Group accounts to see how much money could be directed from Fraser Group to Newcastle? No, they didn't, because it would be a ludicrous proposition and Fraser Group has many shareholders, Fraser Group didn't own Newcastle United... Mike Ashley did.

Personally I think that Sorenson has failed to make the grade. He's got nowhere enough bite or determination. He's tidy enough but he's frankly a bit soft

It's deja vu. It's been explained ad nauseum what it is about. You just pretend to not understand.

Haha. Using 'woke' as a pejorative is moron-signalling.