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A quick =datedif formula in Excel says it’s 4,966 days and counting, or 13 years and 218 days, if you prefer! 😉

Some posters are frightened of meeting the binners again. They tremble with fear "they're a club on the up" as though that means we'll be in their shadow for over a decade....

Perhaps a star on our shirt?

I think this is because the gain remains intangible until taken. It is also personal to the stakeholder rather than the club and doesn't actually change any of the economic fundamentals.

The Glazers have never shown the slightest sign that owning Man Utd was about anything other than making money. It could have been a rugby league club or even a company making widgets as far as they were concerned. There is an interesting discussion about Attanasio and his motives and possible modus operandi. But there seems no doubt that even if he is in it to make money (which he probably is) he is also in it because he is genuinely attracted to Norwich City and gets a kick out of being involved in its future.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-63728503 Sad news as ever. A terrific guitarist and interesting character. Saw him twice in Bradford but also had the honour of playing in a support band for his Solid Sender's back in the mid 80s. Lucky for me I could sit actually at the side of the stage and watch from about 8 ft away! I was amazed by the guitar action he used (not tight to the frets at all) and later thought that he wanted a staccato style of playing so this helped him. He scared me a bit too as he was quite an odd fellow and quiet / quirky / east enderly but watched a couple of documentaries later and I was really moved by his cancer episode. What a life he lived.

Well you are deflecting to a side issue, though it once again reverts back to whether and how you use any equity. If you now have no cash - even though previously you could afford to buy a football club (house) in the first place - you don’t leverage the equity in the company to build the new City stand because you haven’t got the cash to pay the monthly interest instalments. You do nothing with the equity and ignore it. You have no monthly payments to make, though the club has no new City stand. Then one day - upon selling - the equity that you could have previously leveraged and didn’t (because you have no ongoing cash), then becomes a £50m win for you and your family. That you maybe don’t want, need or intend. Though it would be equally daft to ‘give it’ to whoever comes next (and who probably does have the ongoing cash to leverage it). It’s an unusual situation. Parma

I’ll hold my hand up here and confess to failing to recall the exact numbers, plus timing of the deal. However, there was a legacy overdraft, from the Chase days, of circa £4m, which was effectively repayable to Barclays(?) on demand. The total debt securitisation deal realised about £15m, which was used to pay off the overdraft, fund the South Stand redevelopment, which cost about £7.5m and resulted in a surplus, of approximately £3.5m to be used as working capital at the time. Again, from memory, interest and capital repayments were rolled up for a few years, so, by the time we were relegated to League One, the total debt was in excess of £23m. It is probably misleading to assume that was totally down to the South Stand, but the level of debt certainly gave genuine cause for concern and probably focused D&M’s attention on debt reduction for a while. What has also changed subsequently is the huge increase in media revenues, which, as a result of promotions to the Premier League, has enhanced whatever view outsiders have on the worth of the Club. So, to answer your question in isolation, clearly that would have been highly unlikely, but not impossible. What has definitely changed recently is the perception of share values in football, particularly from the US, which means that the whole game has changed. MF’s recent decision to sell, together with the huge question marks around the viability of our self funding model in the Premier League over the previous three seasons, probably means that D&M have reassessed their options. I’ve tried to assess the situation, albeit from memory, and without revisionism or hindsight. Could they have played it differently? Yes, in my opinion, but we are where we are and, personally, and I can see the Club being taken private in the next 5 - 10 years.

Doesn't surprise me. After all, she's one of those who thinks there's a culture 'war' to be had when in reality it's a case of the likes of her talking provocative crap and plenty of others showing where she's misguided. She is right re. slow processing though. That's an area that's needed looking at for a long time.

@shefcanary Having for years championed the mantra of, “there being no one out there looking to invest”, I would suggest that a ‘paper gain’ from their shares would have been something of a difficult sell as security to any potential lenders.

Nah you have to rub it in. That's what keeps the rivalry going.

Lovin' it....lovin' the football....

YYYYESSSSS ****ing brilliant!!! Fantastic 2nd half from Japan. Germany were shocking.

I rest my case!

And a second one hits the back of the net. C'mon Japan.👍🤣

Closet binners reading this...

As Eric Burdon sang: "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good,Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood." 😍

I'd say that's more concerning than difficult, there's plenty of middle eastern money around as they're shifting attention on sports. Reason I say concerning is that already there's Man Utd fans saying they need investment such as City/Newcastle to compete anymore. Surely this should be ringing an alarm bell somewhere?! It's frustrating as hell that this is the accepted direction in sport. And seemingly nothing is being done about?! Of course the government want over-paid players feeding into the tax system so can't look at them. All other organisations are as corrupt as hell. It takes the **** really when the footballing world bends over and takes money from places they then want to oppose via rainbow arm-bands. Absolute sickening joke.

Slightly deviating from the thread, but I stumbled across this. It is the transcript of the letter George H W Bush left on the oval office desk for Bill Clinton. I wonder what the chubby satsuma left for Joe? JANUARY 20, 1993 Dear Bill, When I walked into this office just now I felt the same sense of wonder and respect that I felt four years ago. I know you will feel that, too. I wish you great happiness here. I never felt the loneliness some Presidents have described. There will be very tough times, made even more difficult by criticism you may not think is fair. I'm not a very good one to give advice; but just don't let the critics discourage you or push you off course. You will be our President when you read this note. I wish you well. I wish your family well. Your success now is our country's success. I am rooting hard for you. Good Luck — George

Actually my current pet theory is that we don't play with a 10 precisely because Kane tends to occupy that space and so Maddison would be more likely to play in his absence if he were fit. I'd see him as more of an option at 10 (at the moment at least) than Foden. It'll be interesting to see how he does set them up in Kane's absence.

Fantastic read, great pictures too. https://readtheleague.com/the-big-feature/thenest

It is really quite simple. If you buy a house for x in 1995 and hold onto it until 2022, then you are likely to have high equity in that property. If you own majority shares in an football club, the gain on the value of those shares can be broadly equated to ‘equity in my house’. You can jog along and ignore the equity. Or you can go to the bank and get ‘cash’ out to build a conservatory or a new kitchen. Or you just leave it there. But it is there. You may hit hard times. You may not be able to afford your rising electricity bill, you may not buy a new car. You might even be going into your overdraft and have no cash available for anything. Though the equity gain in your house is still there. Your neighbours who also have no cash because of high bills, also do not buy new cars or go on holiday. Though they rent their house. Despite appearances from the outside - both neighbours seemingly look in the same situation - they are very different. One has £500,000 in equity they could access because they have no mortgage, and the others have nothing and no way to raise further money. Their situations are fundamentally different. ‘Not wanting to talk about the equity’… or…’we never did it for the equity’….is not really a commercial thought process. It is there. It is there because the football club - through all its on-field and off-field operations, the growth in football clubs worldwide, the increases in sky monies et al - has gone up in value. Other clubs and owners could and do leverage this gain. It is a personal gain from owning the shares in the club. It can be kept or handed on to children and Nephews. It is there however. Now that you come to sell, the can that you have been kicking down the street, can’t be kicked any further…there is no more street. It is a bit awkward isn’t it? Take the massive win yourself, turn your £5m into £50m, buy yachts, houses and cars and holidays. You are quite entitled to. Hand over the reins to a ‘new trustee’ and she or he gets the win. To leverage for anything. To keep. To hand on to their Nephew in due course. Why would you do that? Or maybe take some, a lump that is not too egregious, create some kind of structure whereby the new trustee has to build a new stadium, expand the training ground, invest in players, (sort of) amortising the ‘in the future’ share gain? If you were a sharp investor that might look like a really sweet deal. You get all the glory of making tangible improvements, you might add a few bob to keep Buendia, get Skipp and Eriksen, all of which is really only quid-pro-quo offset against the share gain you’ve been ‘given’ The asset likely rises further in value because of your (sort of free-to-you, nice and popular and public!) structural investments, so your future share gain increases, so the overall asset value of the club increases, so when you sell to the next American fund you can concretise your gain! Lovely 🤗 @nutty nigel if you read more closely, rather than criticising Delia and Michael, I am trying to protect them. Parma Post script: ..and as a corollary other shareholders. As @GMF has said, a ‘sweetheart’ deal based on ‘trust, friendship, goodwill and legacy’ can de-facto dilute the value of all shareholdings.

There is one Brexit benefit coming about. I found one! (Clipped from today's iNews). And taking things in all together it fits really nicely. It makes sense. 100%😂

Loved Victor Kompany's comment when it was suggested that Ronaldo could go to Burnley.... "Not really, I want players who can run" 🤣

One of the very few Tories to express his contempt for Johnson's behaviour well before all the others decided to jump on the bandwagon. The Tory Party seems to be repeating the very same pattern established by the MAGA controlled GOP. Moderate and decent politicians either thrown out of the party or compelled to stand down because they can't in all conscience continue to support the repugnant path their party has chosen to follow.

But he wanted to buy a football club…

Thank you kindly, folks! Look forward to digesting your suggestions. This is going to be fun. 🙂

In terms of valuation, Parma's house analogy seems very sensible to me. As regards altruism, D&M in all probability took on the Football Club as a hobby knowing that it is vital to the community and in financial terms may have believed football was a losing game. The interest free loans may well be part of the same altruistic approach. All the more puzzling why Attanasio gets different terms for his loan. The highest admission prices in the EFL based on restricted supply in not developing the stadium and the bulging senior management pay bill dont come across as altruistic towards todays supporters.

CLIFTONVILLE v Newry HOME WIN Good Luck @PurpleCanary and all you Lovely PUPs For BTTS, Notts County v Barnet. Best of luck @littleyellowbirdie

It’s not mythical. It is realised one way or the other when you sell. Say to Attanasio. A process that has started already. What was theoretical is now real. The ‘equity in my house’ metaphor is reasonably good. You can borrow - say - £50k from the nominal £500k equity and buy a new kitchen and bathroom. If the old kitchen and bathroom were shabby, you could even argue that the gain in the overall price you could now achieve for your house (with new kitchen and bathroom) equates more-or-less to the £50k you borrowed. Equally you might leave the equity alone as you have no income at all, your are living in a lovely home, though you could not find the £500 per month to pay off the ‘new mortgage’ from the £50k you borrowed for the kitchen and bathroom refit. In football terms you might characterise it thus: The Glazers leverage every little bit of equity gained as often as they can, at very high interest rates (see Pik notes) - as they are pushing the limits - then spend some on the club, use some to pay off other debts (‘rolling them over’ often at new rates), then try to make more commercial money (which they really have), then pay yourself dividends and bonuses from the company (somewhere well north of £1billion from within the funds of United PLC I believe). Or You never touch it like Delia and Michael. You don’t really even talk about it much. Like it isn’t there. But look above at the Glazers. Look at the billions they siphoned. Now look at what they are selling for. £4bn? £5bn? It is simply not enough to say ‘sweet lady…terrible American’ @nutty nigel Nuanced as @GMF says. Parma Post script: If you ask me personally, I think sweet lady and terrible American is probably bang on..but that isn’t the point…

You don’t win a World Cup after one group match but Spain have been awesome.

Disgruntled Leg Warmers is a great name for a band.

Suella Braverman made to look absolutely foolish at a select committee (mainly by the fellow Tory Tim Loughton) https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/braverman-out-of-her-depth-after-being-quizzed-over-asylum-policy-critics/ar-AA14sVwx?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=11181ed30e84468cb8042155a5d45881

I don't think it's unreasonable for religion and non-religion to meet on occasion and share remotely similar viewpoints as ultimately, religion is essentially a lens through which believers choose to see the world. That's probably where it appears to be "supporting the bits of religions that suit us in the West" - just because believers chose to follow/believe in the existance of a God doesn't mean they're always going to see things in a polar opposite way to myself, a fierce non-believer. Heck, if you look at the Ten Commandments as the most rudimentary of starting points, I suspect most of us would agree with not killing, stealing, or committing adultery. The problem here is when religion, regardless of stripe, is used to justify laws that are an attack on human rights for specific groups of people or in lesser cases, aimed at granting the religious group in question a privileged position over others. There is no legitimate scientific reason backing up Qatar's fundamentalist stance re. homosexuality, and herein lies the problem. They're asking for respect for a stance with nothing factual to back it up, yet it also disrespects a group of people for being naturally themselves. As for those saying "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" or "respect their laws", I think that misses the point entirely. If one thing is clear throughout history, great progress was often achieved by those who questioned and even "disrespected" laws that were clearly no longer any use when analysed under the conditions of the time criticism became more prevalent as opposed to when they came into force, or never were much use in the first place. Laws that naturally disrespect the rights of certain groups never deserved respect in the first place. EDIT: Not to mention, whilst I shall probably always remain critical of religion, I readily accept that cretins will use religion as a poor justification for their deeds - and conversely, some will use religion to justify laudable ones. The base sorts who criticise gay marriage as not Christian are the former, yet David Cameron, in one of his best moves as PM, said his Christian faith was what helped him see gay marriage as right.

But but but what was Japans XG?🤓😉

Well, I for one am enjoying this World Cup so far! Better still, England USA on Friday is pub-friendly timing!

I think he found this vid on his desk:

Well now, how about take it and give it to the community via the CSF.

I disagree and would say obvious examples are required so you know how FIFA want the Laws to be applied. I don't remember an international manager making this comment for previous World Cups and I'd be amazed if international matches weren't used as previous learning material. Wait: Nancy Faeser, the German Interior Minister is wearing the One Love armband and SHE'S SAT NEXT TO GIANNI INFANTINO! 😄 👏

Thanks for clarifying @Parma Ham's gone mouldy. It is even more complicated than that house scenario because Michael and Delia have lent the club money in the past. To save the club having to pay back these loans they have converted them into, what at the time were worthless, shares. Again this has been viewed by some as a power grab where as I believe the truth is more part of their "not expecting to see the money again". Something else I'm unsure of is what all this means for other shareholders. Michael Foulger is already happy but what of others who brought shares in the clubs time of need? **I never saw it as a criticism Parma👍

The whole thing just makes him look like such a ****. He apparently told the club he wanted to leave in the summer, there were no takers and 6 months later he's moaning that people are trying to force him out of the club? He's obviously a hell of a footballer but he just seems deeply unlikable.

Sporting Lisbon would be my guess. Weaker league, they're practically guaranteed CL footy and it's back where he started.

They’ve certainly not been doing it for the love of football (and part of me wishes they own it for many years to come!) 😜

It was on the left at the bottom of Rosary Rd as you look up from Riverside Rd. The site used to be occupied by industrial units but it’s all new housing now. There’s a plaque there to mark the spot.

I'm really not sure about this. I understand these things from the cash trumps all viewpoint but also can easily see another way. I'll be amazed if Delia and Michael were to take the full dollar for themselves. There's always been a cynical view on here about the amount of money ending up in 'Delia's purse'. Of course the truth is nothing has yet. Let's see what happens. I just wish we could find a way to make this into a Rays Funds pledge.

closing on 700k likes… isn’t it crazy that in 2022, still most of the world population is homophobic. it’ll be interesting to see how things develop over the next 50 years. Whilst much of the western world has moved more secular/progressive on these things, religion and conservative attitudes to this sort of thing still dominate the developing world. It would be remiss to just say it’s Qatar/Islam as you’d get the same response in basically every African and Asian country and from the majority of the mainstream religions.

Or surprised.

I couldn't disagree more. We sacked probably the best head coach we will have in my lifetime based upon the expectation that we should be surviving in the Premier League. If 5th in the Championship after a run of 2 wins in 10 is 'par' then expectations are certainly significantly lower for Smith than they were for Farke. Really, though, it's not so much about league position as it is about progress. By any objective measure Smith has taken us backwards. Farke had a plan which he diligently worked at instilling throughout the playing squad. We could all see what he was trying to achieve and, by this stage in his second season, it was delivering both results and entertainment. With Smith we have none of those things. He's only just stopped trying to play 4-3-3 but still hasn't fixed the fundamental defensive deficiencies in midfield, aside from a couple of games where we stopped the rot. And, such is the scattergun approach, none of us know who will be playing in what system. Ultimately the club either gets promoted this season or releases half the squad and attempts to rebuild. When we got promoted with our record points total two seasons ago, the latter scenario was unthinkable. To go from that high to the current incoherent dross is a significant failure. So, no, expectations are not 'too high' at all.

I've said before and I'll say it again- Messi is clearly just in it for the football. He keeps his head down, his mouth shut and get's on with it due to his own love of the game and sport .. Meanwhile I have always felt Ronaldo despite being obviously one of the greatest footballers of all time is a massive crybaby, can't stand any kind of critisim, his head is just pure ego and vanity and he can't look at his own reflection in the mirror without getting an erection. They are both of course footballers that will go down in the history books but end of day I feel their personalities could not be any further apart.

You do realise that naming a complex after him will make him very happy.