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Yeah let's drop Sarge and Pukki 🤔

Also Nice to see Barden back

I noticed, during the brief time allowed, for CC's posting that the game will be broadcast from Norway, throughout Africa and onto Australia, yet there I'll be, credit card at the ready, in Southern England unable to watch one single live minute unless I resort to cheating. Ridiculous.

What posters are missing who complain about Smith’s lack of personality and flair, and who still yearn for the romance of the relationship with Daniel Farke, is the response of Villa fans to his appointment here. I don’t think I’ve ever seen as many supporters of other clubs on here who to a man/woman told us what a great guy he was, how lucky we were to get him and what a great job he’d done for their club. As someone has said, feelings for Smith are tainted by how we feel about a lost love. Villa fans appear to feel similarly about Dean Smith, which gives a little perspective.

I don’t think that is the point of this at all. The whole thing is an unholy mess, that’s the thing. Even you on your high horse might agree that?

I think streams are great value for money. Not only do I get to watch most of a match sometimes, I would never have known Tatiana (22, Newton Flotman) wanted to share her saucy pictures and it was only a click away.

https://www.twitch.tv/ Search for 'andygw5x' OTBC

BANG!!!! Forgive me, I need to go and fix my irony-meter.

Another ludicrously warm and humid evening here in Norfolk. I've just about had enough of it and can't wait for the weather to break and luxuriate in some lovely rain. I don't know about other parts of the country but here in NR2 we've had less rain than Timbuktu. Smith said it would be about giving fringe players minutes so it was good to see Sara, Byrom, Hugill etc getting starts. It was fairly even early on with a Cantwell inspired raid down the right which the visitors defended at the expense of a corner. Then at the other end a dangerous low cross missed everybody before being cleared. A couple of times Bournemouth nearly came unstuck trying to play out of defence and Hugil was inches away from turning the ball in. At our end Gunn almost did the same with a loose ball to the edge of the box but the shot was deflected and the following header looped over. Sara had a quiet start but became more influential as the half wore on. In the 23rd minute he powered forward to the edge of the box before hitting a shot that the keeper could only parry for an inrushing Jordan Hugil to slot into the net. It might have been two when Sara put Rashica away but has pass inside didn't reach Hugil. From here on the visitors began to call the tune and Gunn again saved the day with a couple of superb reaction saves. Just before the half ended, City couldn't clear the pressure and the ball fell kindly for an easy tap in. On balance of play it was hard to complain. City began the second half with Gibbs and Max replacing Kenny and Sam Byrom. For while it didn't make much difference as Bournemouth continued to dominate and Gunn continued to defy them with further fine saves. First parrying a shot from 12 yards then clawing a close range effort off the line. Slowly City came back into the game and were giving as good as they got when Teemu and Adam Idah replaced Hugil and Ramsey. Rashica had a cross come shot saved and Cantwell's free kick from the left was punched away under pressure. With ten minutes left the visitors were again denied when Gunn's arm kept out a point blank effort and whe City broke clear they appeared to have wrapped up the victory. Rashica was blocked out on the right but Cantwell picked up the loose ball and slipped it through for Pukki and Idah tucked in the pass from six yards. That should have been that as the home side had further chances to seal it. With time added ticking away, a hard low cross ricocheted between a defender and a forward and into the net. At the death Pukki might have restored the lead but the narrow angle shot deflected over And so onto penalties and a disappointment for Cantwell who was the only failure with a shot that hit the bar. He put a lot into the game but its still not quite clicking for him. On balance however Bournemouth probably just deserved the win. Gunn clearly MOM Sara some nice touches and will get better. Tomkinson looked assured and Gibbs made a difference when he came on. And so to bed.

Wtaf - we didn’t play our first team either. Nor did we last season. And we drew tonight with no l/b. I can’t quite see the point being made, but it is rather daft whatever it is.

Bum. Thanks for the updates Pete.

I'm just back from being out and surprised this point is still being discussed. I think there's a balance in there. And I believe there is common ground between posters. There is no question that the UK had influence and oddly, that influence had been increasing, not reducing, up to the time of exit. I'm also sure that Barnier meant what he said (and has since stated) that our withdrawal was not good for either us or the EU. Yet, he was the proper adult in most of the negotiations, which if you recall stalled time and again with new faces being drafted in. It was a time of 'unicorn' politics with ludicrous claims being made by Davis to start with. I think we can all agree too that the UK was not THE leader in any relationship. Yet, we had clout and we've always been important. After all, we've had two wars in recent history and French-British relations have always been prickly but ultimately, often productive, cooperative. That's why the French are warm to the English. English culture is palpable in modern French daily life. Brexit has undoubtedly reduced any influence we enjoyed. It was worsened by Johnson (in my honest view). Now... We all tend to try and defend our political leanings and this can exaggerate our take on certain matters. My view is that had we really wanted to take a bigger place within the EU hierarchy, it was there for us. To do that though we needed a PM to be far more open than the ones we have had in recent times. Blair was one perhaps (hoping you don't resurrect the Iran war argument 😅... in me mentioning him in a post - like a red rag to a bull🐂). I say this, having listened to the Rory Stewart / Alistair Campbell podcasts recently. Campbell formed very strong relationships with Holland certainly to give an example. But then he speaks French and partly lives there. I also agree with Rory Stewart and yesterday John Major about the Tory leadership (Johnson). These are people I'm getting a new respect for and finding a new appreciation. Truss? I'm really worried. Wish it was Wallace, for example. But he must have realised the next tenure as PM would be a tough one. I'm almost expecting Truss to self-combust.

Maybe not. But who cares? Or so what? We are in a kinds of relationships, we are in marriages, we are in businesses. That's life! Relationships aren't perfect. Relationships aren't equal. You work at them. Or you are just alone. And why wouldn't we be in relationship with our nearest neighbours? Divorce has consequences. Ours will take maybe 10 years to get over. A lot of damage and lives changed though. This thread was about the Tory leadership and I'm conscious it's moving over to the Brexit one. I believe I've said all I can or needed to now on that issue. My views are completely irrelevant too. I'm hopeful of the new leader and any new UK leaders starting to be more adult again, to build bridges rather than constantly smashing them down. Not good for politics in 2022 or the future.

I can categorically say that the UK's position was very influential within the EU. We were an extremely important partner. The UK could always seen as being a little spiky at times but almost it was a case that being so, our influence was somehow more important. That is how it seemed to me in my involvement (over 3 years). I know this, not because I was some 'big player' (I was just a participant like many) but I did get to speak with those who were senior EU public policy and international relations specialists. I was always interested in how decisions were made, how to attract funding especially. I also read widely and was invited to a couple of events. You just got to learn about how that great big 'edifice' of the EU worked. Very concerned with details indeed, very interested on 'how' things worked, very interested in the mechanisms of understanding, of process. I'd never come across anything like it in my working life. Yet I learnt tons of things and met some of the most creative minds I'd ever met. It was humbling and I realised just that I was a National League player (in football speak) in my thinking - and I thought I knew a thing or two before! My experience therefore was like encountering a whole load of Guardiolas! That's the thing. Brexit has removed us from working with the best minds. Just look at the Horizon programme. Our UK scientists were involved in amazing projects. Projects that were helping change the world. The EU wanted UK scientists. It had a deep admiration for British innovation. It is so obvious that not belonging to the EU deeply diminishes us. It doesn't need to be even debated here. Brexit has diminished this country. People who voted for leaving must have known that too, even if they didn't have a first hand experience. Johnson's behaviour in office and the appalling way he handled himself has definitely affected EU trust. We know too in reading press stories. Hell, you can see it in those optics at conferences. You don't need to be a body language expert either. It's why I stated that our reputation has taken a battering. And I was proud of the UK and Britishness (whatever that really means) but far less so now. I feel more embarrassed and less patriotic. Being in Europe and being British was the best of both worlds for me. Being out of it means we are just not at the table. Sadly, we face being on the menu though.

He makes exactly my point at about 9 mins in! Why we joined no less - global influence. He also clearly outlines our leadership - SM, expansion and so on. Don't confuse Franco-German alliances or come to that our stronger links to Eastern Europe with the overall role. Frankly he explains quite clearly our role. However his best point in the referendum it was how 'impervious people were to factual & logical argument'! The same is still true today. The post Brexit 'benefits' is really a case of making the best of a bad call and then selling it to the public as good deal (Australia, NZ, Japan etc)..

I'm one of those who remain convinced that if we say goodbye to Teemu Pukki, whatever the offer, before this window closes, then we can kiss goodbye to promotion. There seems to be this constant undercurrent on this forum that the player is somehow past it. A popular pastime amongst some eager detractors. Those whose microscopic views feed their need to be critical. Nothing could be further from the truth and even if, and big if, he has lost a bit of his sharpness then it is, imo, only temporary. Any perceived loss of pace will be compensated for in other ways. Besides, if Premier League Everton are indeed interested, then any deterioration in the player's performances cannot have been seen as significant. Goals apart (and he could easily have had a couple by now with better luck on his side,) I think that he has performed well so far this season and virtually up to par. Any significant loss in any way could well be catered for by this enforced rest. For such a workhorse, even the recent workload has been excessive, carrying both club and international commitments with little break and for a prolonged period. So the Sarge has become a striker overnight, and let's hope he keeps it up.** He is, though, as prone to injury as any other player. Idah is prone to injury, full stop. Hugill is not up to it. Overnight, we could well have one of the most suspect strike forces in the entire division with limited time to redress. Lose Teemu Pukki right now. No way! ** He'll need to if we lose Teemu.

With this attitude we’d still be at Newmarket Road or the Nest. Norwich City need the stadium expanded and have done for a decade.

He's not a left back and he a Ramsey were clearly the weakest links. I thought Rashica did ok but the final ball never picked out a yellow shirt. Specialist left back now top priority.

Gunn was outstanding,

How dare you, we lost to a team in a higher divison on penalties in the cup- This is proof Smith is a useless manager and must be sacked at once!😉

Not too gutted we are out but highlighted we woefully short in defence we need a left back and a centre back .. Tomkins not up to this level yet and Gibson is terrible. And we desperate for a left back. Also Rashica just get rid he not arsed and shown in every game so far this season he couldn’t care less him jogging back on that late equaliser was a disgrace!!

Ah well unlucky to lose on pens. Probably an unnecessary distraction given how condensed fixtures are this season, but good to see (or hear in my case); Pukki and Idah involved in a goal Cracking display from Gunn Sara and Byram getting good minutes under their belts (hopefully the latter’s substitution was part of the plan)

Pukki assist as well. Get in.

And neither should he above Pukki or the 'New' Sargent or even Idah when he's at home.. I’m one of those who doesn't particularly rate Hugill because I don't feel there's enough of the complete footballer there. He is limited in his dimensions. However, he never fails to come up with the goods whenever in the yellow, so discarding him completely would be reckless, especially considering the influence we are told he has in the dressing room.

Careful CC or a certain someone will be popping up to ask what hotel room you've booked etc. Etc. 🤣

You only have to tap him and he falls over

Anyone think we should sell Onel Hernandez because he's not good enough?

Spotify has also made royalty payments to artists disappear

(Nobody answer.) 😉

I prefer the Haribo Cup- keep it

All he needs is to get a Bride down the pipeline and he's in.

Some may call me petty but I'm also quite enjoying Liverpool struggling to fill their bench with senior pros, after 5 substitutes was pretty much brought in because of Klopp moaning

The reality is that some managers are charismatic and others show their personalities and character on the pitch. Smith is a straight bat “minimum is best “ type of dull media person. What we are starting to see on the pitch however is an emerging style that comes from coaching and good management. Sargent is the prime example. His movement around the pitch and timing his runs has greatly improved. His ability to put in a extra half a yard stride before scoring in the last games comes from confidence. Who gave him that confidence? The coaching staff.? He gone from bambi on ice at times in first season to a Harry Kane clone because the last two goals are exactly the type of goal HK would have scored. Well done all👏

Of course we were a leader - football teams or the EU can have more than one leader at once. We led on many things - market deregulation, expansion, CAP reform, budgets and on and on - indeed the Germans and French welcomed us for it with as SonyC said our 'spikey' attitude - or elsewhere known as British pragmatism. Equally CM is right when he gave an historical perspective of the roles Germany, France and the UK played - indeed Germany wanted France to step up when we left so as the EU wasn't so German dominated. It is you that seems to be unable to grasp the bigger picture or truth but get hung up on every minor point that most of us can accept without rancour. Of course all the EU counties have differing perspectives and disagree at times as with all siblings - but if you want to grasp the ultimate truth ask yourself why Putin was so pleased with and promoted Brexit. Simply because he knew it would weaken both the EU and particularly the UK's influence in the world. Divided we fall.

All doubly frustrating as seemed to fight tooth and nail to stay on as long as possible only to then stop doing any work when he got his way.

Yes sure, I perhaps should have been more precise chronologically in what I said. When we first joined nearly fifty years ago what Wall says about the existing French and German relationships and their influence is absolutely true but that changed over time with the UK gaining influence, primarily at France's expense. It is also probably over-simplistic to suggest there was a strict 1-2-3 ranking across all issues, in practice there were some policy areas where UK wielded more influence than the France and vice-versa, but overall there can be no denying that in the 15 years prior to Cameron's stupidity in calling a referendum that the UK and German governments were more closely with aligned each other than with the French, and that as a result the French influence was much diminished.

The main complication over your eminently sensible idea of just pricing it right for the consumer to eliminate the need for illegal streams is that there are just too many interested parties who want a cut of the action. This is further complicated because those parties are not prepared to work together to allow for an effectively universal legitimate "stream" on demand (with one or two legitimate geographical constraints) under a rights based policy where licencing rates are agreed to share the income appropriately. Whilst the leagues like EPL / EFL continue to squeeze as much out of broadcasters as they can, with those broadcasters trying to cover the costs of their broadcasting rights, this will continue to prevail. The clubs are the probable solution, but then you would just move the argument to one between the likes of the EPL big six and the rest as divergence over whether the home club or the away club should benefit the most. In conclusion, this is an economic minefield, which even the likes of Einstein and Kissinger (one for the oldies) working together could not achieve compromise on.

Yep, me too. It's a ludicrous situation. Willing to pay for a match, but no-one wants my money for it. Needs sorting.

I know what you mean, it is always more complex. Ideally you do not want him to give the ball away but if he has no other options and he carries the ball 40 yards that can be useful, yet I think the real value comes from the risk of the fast breakaway. To protect against his pace defences to take a deeper line, which then gives our neat and tidy players more space to operate in, critically higher up the pitch. it was obvious how deep Millwall defended in the first half, I thought Onel’s threat was part of that. Cantwell, Dowell, and Sinani are quite similiar, Perhaps explains why we are sniffing around for another winger.

Can’t see any problem with this, it’s just like the Brexit vote, and that turned out ok didn’t it? 🤣🤣🤣

It looks like a minefield at first glance but let's take a guess at what is going on here though I could be wrong. At present, before the resolutions and leaving aside the insignificant A and B Preference Shares, the Club has 616,913 Ordinary Shares issued plus 1,000,000 more that could potentially be issued. As Purple states the nominal price for these is £1 but the issue price has been or will be a range of prices substantially higher than £1. The Resolutions will on the face of it rescind this but in a sense they will also subsequently recreate it. This will happen by replacing them with the C Preference Shares and converting them back again. Up to 1 million Ordinary Shares are replaced with 10 million Preference C shares convertible back to Ordinary Shares at a 10 per cent conversion rate. So eventually we end up at the same position as now but with the potential additional 1 million shares now issued. Preference Shares are loan capital in effect therefore it is the same road that S&J went down when they came on board and ditto for the Turner experiment so it fits past practice. What maybe different is the Interest element of 7%? Haven't such loans been interest free in the past? This may imply that the Americans will want to see Dividends on Ordinary Shares going forward? Then we have this theory about other people getting involved in Preference C shares. The purpose of Articles of Association is to draft them as wide as possible to facilitate all possibilities as they develop but why would that really be the intention? What would be the mechanism? There is still the possibility that there is no intention for Dividends on Ordinary Shares. In that latter event anybody joining may be happy with 7% now but they would have no control on the conversion date and the loss of income but would then be the proud owners of Ordinary Shares. The latter isn't likely to happen either. More likely that the Americans would use the 30% and 90% triggers to buy out the other minority shareholders before paying Dividends.

The Aussies and Kiwis took the **** out of us with those ludicrous trade deals, if that's any help.

Strange comment when he has, in fact, done a more than decent job. He wandered overmuch in the first game, but without great harm. In the second, I thought that his movement with the ball and his passing were both the best we have seen from the player for some time. He seemed to revel in the extra space afforded, and he actually seemed more commanding and prominent than he has done in the middle of the park of late, or for some time, according to some. Also, the responsibility suited him and I noticed that he showed some authority when defending set pieces. Whether he'll compete more effectively when faced with a tricky wide man, or indeed better attacking players, is anybody's guess, but at this moment in time he is proving to be surprisingly adequate as an elder statesman playing an influential role. The other bonus is that it keeps him from being perpetually selected for the midfield, where I genuinely believe that we now have a selection of more useful performers lined up, not least young Gibbs but also two newcomers who have hardly figured. Perhaps McLean's much vaunted work rate that appeals to consecutive managers is no longer as vital to the cause. We still need a temporary back-up, though.

That happens every week though from whichever side is winning. I've been 'goaded' by plenty of home fans when we've been beaten away and never felt the need to lob a chair or fight a steward.

Why would you limit the development of a young full-back and not let him go out on loan to play regularly if you have 3 players ahead of him, more experienced, capable of playing LB? What other club in the world has 4 viable first-team left backs keeping happy throughout a season?

I think Webbers transfer history sits in the same place as Farke's managerial one- Championship very good, Premier League very bad.

Its called being pragmatic. A new manager will come in here knowing nothing about our squad, the players would have to work on a completely new style of football, and realistically it would result in our results and performances going backwards rather than forwards at least in the short term. Dean Smith doesn't excite me greatly, but the time for the Knutsen or similar would have been early June, not the end of August when we've recruited for a Dean Smith team. And I can get into him, if he succeeds in his role, because that's what rational and sensible people are like - there are a lot of colours between black and white. To take the position you are taking at this stage in the season is utter lunacy and I personally thinks just shows that you've not thought this through at all. You lost all credibility and showed your complete lack of football knowledge the moment you suggested that you'd be happy to have Sean Dyche come in and completely bypass Nunez in midfield. That alone shows that your opinion on football matters is not worth taking seriously at this point in time. I say "this point in time" in case you are acting irrationally due to some terrible personal circumstances, or trauma, or head injury, in which case I hope you make a full recovery and look forward to hearing your footballing opinions after that point.

It really is sad that so much critisism came (and continues to come) Smith's way simply for not being Farke, and the extremes it went to in the first few games this season (despite us playing well and a definite style emerging) shows how little people know, and were actually watching of the football. Smith inherited a useless PL squad, that Farke must have had a say in building and certainly had a major say in getting to play so poorly. Smith made changes to try and get the best out of it (bypass the non existent midfield), playing to the very few strengths we had, and yet that meant we had no 'identity' and were throwing away the messiahs philosophy, as if Farke had the patent on passing slick football, despite Smith's history as a football manager and the way he had teams such as Brentford and Villa playing. Those players were not able to play the way we are now in the PL and get results. As it turned out we weren't good enough full stop, but Smith's way gave some glimmer of hope and but for injuries and poor management of the Covid situation, who knows. That we're now seeing Smith's way of playing is very similar, and equally attractive on the eye (without the two players supposedly responsible for our promotion last time) as Farkes is hilarious. Nice to see some giving some due credit, and it's not all rosy now as the season is long and still improvements and consistency needed. But what the team has shown this week is a philosophy, a clear way of playing, a tactical and motivational coach and also a club all pulling in the same direction. All despite the unintelligible ramblings and inpatient blubbing 'support' of many 'fans'. It's all very well having an opinion, please can it be based on actual evidence and basic sense, rather than just the latest result and whether the coach drinks tea out of a mug and is getting a bit podgy.

And they try to tell you that football is a simple game.🙄