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But you can;t treat us differently to Villa or Bournemouth because we happen to be 6 points behind them. This "oh well Norwich are going down so just relegate them" attitude is pretty prevalent on twitter (Leeds fans in particular) but its wrong. I have a massive issue with us being relegated if we can;t play on and i would hope that the club would too. As it happens the momentum appears to have shifted significantly towards it all re-starting but if they are going to have to decide what happens if its curtailed before it starts then this debate will still have to be had. We mustn't let them sneak it through as a "fallback."

Agreed, but it's not just backbone. Troy Deeney is at a club where the fans love him, the management of the club love him, he's paid his dues, been round the block, had his career, and, yes, made his money, so he is in a stronger position than most as he is confident to express his views without paying too high a price. He's had his career and no one can take that away. But more than all of that, he's on the inside and he knows that he is speaking for probably a couple of hundred other players who have more at risk if they speak out. He is actually a hero and should be acknowledged as such. I was celebrating today when I heard that the Government has formed a Task Force including Rugby and Football representatives to discuss the restart. It's great because you can rest assured that the Rugby types have enough Doctors, surgeons and Consultants in their ranks to ensure that Rugby does not re-start until it is safe to do so. Surely, they wouldn't dare sanction football abandoning social distancing until rugby does also. (I wouldn't bet against it though!)

You guys might as well give up, any economic downturn that may or may not happen as a result of Brexit is now irrelevant.

Just to add another to the list, a Spurs player has had his haircut, and being the intelligent lad he is, has posted a photo of him and his hairdresser on Instagram

Angling while rowing is called Trolling.

I made the same point on the thread about the Bundesliga restart, albeit not to do with the danger of dying but of suffering career-threatening damage to your body, as raised as a possibility by a recent German-Italian study. Football is not an essential business and playing this season to a finish is not essential. The scenario I envisaged was of a 23-year-old Bundesliga player with at least six seasons ahead of them. In their boots I would not take the risk, even though probably small, of scr*wing my career just to play in a non-essential finish to a non-essential activity. I would sit it out and hope that by the time I needed to make a decision about the next season (if there is one) I would have more medical information about this risk and/or news of treatments to counter the virus, or even a vaccine. This is probably not disimilar to Troy Deeney's reasoning. Why risk his son's health, even if the risk is small, for something that is by no stretch of the imagination essential.

Here’s is some positive news. Jenner in a tweet firstly said they were happy in the monkies that it protected. They also released the findings, that actually say it protected from pneumonia etc. Anyway here is their response which I find quite encouraging and I am not really sure why bbc, itv etc are not reporting this, rather than than the negatives. Reckon in their normal way they will have an exclusive on this in 2 weeks time. It is also worth noting that the government extra funding came after this was already known. The report that they refer to on 16/5 was published 1/5. Efficacy of the Oxford COVID-19 Vaccine in Monkeys 19 May 2020 We are writing in response to the article published on Forbes online on 16th May by William Haseltine relating to the BioRxiv preprint publication ‘ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccination prevents SARSCoV-2 pneumonia in rhesus macaques' by van Doremalen et al (2020). The article compares vaccine research carried out in rhesus macaques by Sinovac Biotech in Beijing, China and at NIH, USA for The Jenner Institute at Oxford University, UK. These are small studies designed to look at the safety of the vaccine before starting human clinical trials. Head-to-head comparison of these studies are difficult since they differ in some important areas. There are a number of key aspects of the studies where the conclusions drawn by the author are incorrect and misleading: • Valid comparisons of virus levels post-challenge in nasal secretions cannot be made: these data are currently not available from the Sinovac group, where there was no intranasal challenge. The challenge protocols used differed between the two studies, in particular the dose and route of challenge used. The NIH study exposed the upper and lower respiratory tract to SARS-CoV-2 at a higher combined dose. The Sinovac study exposed the lower respiratory tract only and at a lower dose. • Virus neutralisation assays are notoriously lab-specific so, to compare titres, the samples should be assessed side by side in the same lab. However, the high neutralisation titres measured in the Sinovac study are from after the live virus challenge rather than after immunisation. Both of these studies show clear promise, with high efficacy in each case against lung disease, and research on both vaccines should continue as planned. So, the headline result is that the both vaccines were able to provide clear protection against lower respiratory tract infection in the respective models. Whilst legitimate to try to ask questions about the relative efficacy of the two vaccines, drawing comparative conclusions about the studies is flawed given the differences in study design. To draw definitive conclusions, one would have to compare the two vaccines side by side under the same experimental conditions. In the end it is the impact on clinical disease that matters. Of course with similar safety and efficacy the single dose Oxford vaccine, now partnered with AstraZeneca, would be preferred to a three dose vaccine for cost, manufacturing and operational reasons. As we write the clinical trials of these vaccines continue and we will soon have results giving us a better indication of the safety and potential efficacy of Oxford vaccine. The world needs multiple vaccines and it is our hope that of the many vaccines in development at least some will show promising efficacy and rapidly move to late-stage trials and subsequent approval as soon as possible Sarah Gilbert1, Neeltje van Doremalen2, Tonya Villafana3, Teresa Lambe1, Andrew Pollard1, Adrian Hill1, Mene Pangalos3, Vincent Munster2. 1University of Oxford, Oxford, UK; 2Rocky Mountain Labs, Montana, USA; 3AstraZeneca BioPharmaceuticals R&D, Royston, UK.

Definitely Cameron's legacy and whilst the referendum certainly made the divisions deeper and more bitter I think the main fault lines were already there - driven by the failed Tory austerity economics and their disregard for the vulnerable in society, plus their total contempt for the devolved administrations. All things which May and subsequently Johnson doubled down on so I can't see that there is anything (or anybody) in UK 2020 that is capable of unifying the country. Seems to me that we are going in the opposite direction and in the near future we will see an independent Scotland, a united Ireland and sadly a mini (and not united) UK struggling badly economically and still very divided politically. Interesting that the virus has, if anything, has actually highlighted the divisions rather than led to any unity, with Scotland, NI and even Wales asserting very strongly their own authority in devolved matters and openly criticising Johnson for suggesting he was speaking for the whole of the UK when in reality he was only speaking for England.

I get confused Essex. You seem to be complaining about so many things it's difficult to know which one you are focussing on in which message. The bond? I can't support you on that simply because I registered, managed to come up with £500 and invested. Then when I went to various get togethers for bond holders I saw a lot of people I see at games and at forums etc. Now I know some people did miss out. But I would say the majority on here said they would not be investing. Some also said that the bonus would never be paid. More likely that we would be relegated and lose everything. Why didn't you partake in the Canaries Bond? If it's about you not being paid a bonus on something you bought in 2002 that never offered a bonus then I don't see any relevance. Then it seems to be about other individuals on the board who you insinuate are dishonest. Or Steve Stone and the same insinuation. I would have thought if that was the case other ADG would have backed you. Is Alan Bowkett still on the ADG? But even if I agreed with you I don't see what earthly use I would be. Would you really go somewhere else and say - The ADG won't back me, the football ombudsman won't back me but there's a bog cleaner called nutty nigel on the pink un who thinks I'm hard done by...

I assume its because this thread is already enough of an ideological sh1tshow without cross pollinating it with Brexit to be honest.

I'll give the bloke his due, I would bet there are others who don't have the backbone to say it.

The EPL and EFL are separate entities and it is up to either how they wish to promote or relegate. As much as we hate the thought of Leeds replacing us having not completed their games I don't think there is much we can do about it. Fulham may have a case, we don't. Any legal action we take will be on the basis of the EPL not completing and resorting to a PPG basis instead. Our only hope is to do it on the pitch and I would rather pray that this virus diminishes and we can complete and stay up rather than more disruption, death and economic hardship.

EFL continuing to push/back clubs into trying to agree PPG with full promotion and relegation based on the options it is rumoured they are offering league 1 clubs a vote on. Their entire approach seems to be solely geared to trying to ensure they can push for teams to be promoted to the premier league. it stinks to be honest. PPG is a false, made up concept that now just seems accepted as the “sporting merit” solution when it’s the polar opposite.

On twtd there is a hospital doctor who keeps posting about his experiences on the front line. They are well worth a read and a mixture of depressing and scary but do give a real insight and appreciation for what it has been like for NHS staff and why we shouldn't take them/it for granted (any twtd lurkers please pass on my praise). But, the point of this is, in one of his earlier posts he said that the anecdotal evidence from around his hospital was that the test was only 70% accurate, if you think oh, that's pretty good (and to backup Bristol's point) watch this video:

Why do you think all the water has got clearer since lockdown??

Seems a friendly bloke of course. But generally not a success as a manager and certainly no where near close to a reassuring person to own our football club, regardless of money. He could have 20 billion to his name and wouldn't go near him. He has destroyed enough clubs financially without having all the control. God knows what it would be like if he did

Dont ask questions like that!!!!!!! Anyone would think we were in the middle of a pandemic!!!😉

Indeed. In the last week we've seen the "Fisheries" argument blow up - there are long established commercial contracts allocating existing British quotas to continental fishing boats that must be honored - and the "no Irish border" argument blow up - UK Gov now admitting there will have to be customs post added at N.Irish sea and air ports, and the "frictionless trade" argument blow up - the EU saying that if you want frictionless, tariff-free trade then you have to continue to adhere to a range of agreed standards. But Boris is throwing a fit because he pinky promised to take Britain out of the EU orbit. Oh and the US threatening the UK not to do a trade deal with China, or the US deal is off. All of this was some predicable, and frankly was predicted. After Frost published a letter saying the EU was only offering Britain a “low quality” trade deal, Barnier said he rejected combative public statements and would prefer to engage in real technical negotiations. He said Britain would have to commit to upholding standards on state aid, competition, climate, tax and labour in order for it to be allowed to trade freely with the bloc after the status-quo transition period following Brexit ends, which is currently due to happen on Dec. 31. But that idea is anathema to British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, a leading Brexit campaigner who promised to take Britain out of the EU’s orbit.

False negatives are the problem not positives.

I just saw the list of supposed misdemeanours by PL footballers. God, I despair... ■ Manchester City defender Kyle Walker was reported to have hosted a party involving two **** workers and then travelled to South Yorkshire to visit his sister and parents at different addresses. He has written to some of the club's supporters to apologise. Everton striker Moise Kean is set to be disciplined by the club after being filmed at a house party. ■ Aston Villa captain Jack Grealish was pictured at the scene of a car crash, after going to "see a friend". He apologised and said he was "deeply embarrassed". ■ Tottenham's Serge Aurier and Moussa Sissoko apologised for training together despite the coronavirus restrictions. ■ Spurs manager Jose Mourinho "accepted his actions were not in line with protocol" after being pictured holding a one-on-one training session in a park with midfielder Tanguy Ndombele. ■ Arsenal spoke to all their players after Alexandre Lacazette, David Luiz, Nicolas Pepe and Granit Xhaka were pictured breaking social distancing guidelines. ■ Chelsea midfielder Mason Mount was pictured having a kickabout with West Ham's Declan Rice despite team-mate Callum Hudson-Odoi testing positive for coronavirus and Mount being told to self-isolate for 14 days. ■ Wolves midfielder Morgan Gibbs-White was pictured on social media at a party. The 20-year-old is facing disciplinary action from the club.

"Remember to tune into PMQs on Wednesday to watch Keir do what he does best: own a donkey." @JosephLCox

Biking while you're Piking.

Absolute proof if any was needed that motivation behind Project Restart is entirely financially driven with a total disregard for all other concerns. Or else these same options would be laid out before the Premier League sides.

Funny that cos I heard that the Ippo fans were not keen on the Dolls as they didnt resemble family members. 🤔

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11991633/fa-tells-womens-super-league-and-championship-clubs-that-season-will-end-early Interesting that 2 of the 3 options being promoted here are options we have been told by the FA are not allowed for the premier league/championship.

I am sorry but what kind of name is Jonathan Tomkinson for a footballer?! Clint Dempsey - now there's a proper name for a footballer, or Vinnie Jones, or even Marco van Basten. But not something out of a Michael Palin story...

Apologies from me too. I thought at the time your post was a bit strange and out of character.

You're right it isn't your best analogy 😉 Unfortunately all work right now comes with an element of risk based on this virus, unless you can satisfactorily do your job from home, which football players clearly can't. In most instances those people would be furloughed. If project restart doesn't happen, clubs are going to be dealing with sizable rebates to go along with significant drops in match day income. That is before we get to the issue of what happens with next season and how that affects future TV income Watford reportedly have a wage budget of over £80m. How long can a club like that sustainably pay out £7m a month in wages when they're main sources of income are cut off?

IMPORTANT MESSAGE: I was quoting someone who mentioned changing the system permanently, therefore when I said that the top two had earnt the right, it was a reference to a complete season. How would we feel if we had to play a playoff last season to reach the Premier League having won the Championship comfortably over 46 games? Leeds and West Brom clearly have not earnt the right the season.

I genuinely don't get this train of thought. We signed up to a 38 game season to be judged over the course of that accordingly, and the future of the club will be massively affected when/if we are relegated. I appreciate it's easy to be apathetic in the current global climate, but being accepting of artificial relegation based on a season curtailed through absolutely no fault of our own would set an incredibly dangerous precedent, and it's certainly surprising to find there are quite a few fans who wouldn't be bothered.

Sorry to hear of the two people you knew. Shocking when it hits home. Reports are that many got C19 in hospital and even more incredible that it was exported into care homes. Think Boris J will forever be known for the virus, defining him, much in the way Iraq defined Blair ultimately.

To be fair, I was more posing the question in general, not referring to her specific case which i had totally forgotten about. As this happened in 2003, so whilst labour were in power, then yes, it would be a tad hypocritical.

I read this last night. A complex picture ...though it's been positive for their share price! Vaccine experts say Moderna's Covid-19 data leave big questions https://www.statnews.com/2020/05/19/vaccine-experts-say-moderna-didnt-produce-data-critical-to-assessing-covid-19-vaccine/

I hate that thought process because it feels so much Little-Norwich-Like. However, the amount of f*cking times i've heard "every football fan wants Leeds in the premier league". Do they? I couldn't give two flying f*cks what league Leeds are in.

I have just updated The come on Sarah thread with the Jenner statement released overnight. It’s very positive.

Dream Team Time..... Mucus Evans and Arry in partnership, maybe get in John Delaney, ex FAI CEO, fellow gladhander and corporate level ticket tout. Just about leaves room for Big Sam as Manager.....none of this head coach and sporting director modern rubbish. What could possibly go wrong? ,

I can put them on the Come on Sarah thread if you want ? As you will be aware from there the info is often available days and sometimes weeks before it becomes BBC news. I pick it up from newspapers reporting things and tweets from the Jenner group. The tweets and news on the treatment trials are on the Jenner site as well so easy for me to add that as well. I am sure you will agree that although a lot of what goes on there is unconfirmed at the time 99 % of it becomes fact days later. A good example of that was bbc being negative about the vaccine, when Jenner at this time do not seem concerned as it does they feel protect you from the bit that kills you, but only time will tell. And yes you are right the USA vaccine looks good. The negative is only 8 people injected so far, the positive its in the USA where I beleive if this looks like it will work they will go straight into human challenge trials ( humans having the vaccine then being injected with the virus ) because Trump will encourage this idea, as if he comes up with the vaccine before November he becomes president again for 4 years.

Labour were unelectable I agree Ian. And there is definitely a responsibility there. Plus, Corbyn was for leaving anyway. It was a shambles of a government and a shambles of an opposition. We've had a long run in! And now a pandemic is further exposing the fault lines, what is important. As I posted before, it presents an opportunity for some serious debate and a reset. Will we though?

I think had Labour presented anywhere near a reasonable opposition they would have cleaned up, so if your logic is that all those who voted Conservative are responsible for any disgusting future policy they may introduce, you can also apportion the blame to those on the hard left that kept Corbyn in power and made Labour unpalatable to the vast majority in the UK. IMO people who hold either view don't hold them in good faith, or are particularly interested in unity or even rational political discourse between those with differing views.

I remember seeing them but like FF I invariably found myself at the front. If I wasnt at the front I'd be in someone's shoulders and not always my dads, he told me once that I ended up being passed around like a ball is when it ends up in the stand and no one wants to return it. When I was old enough I progressed to being in the Barclay cages with one of my favourite memories being the Bruce header vs Ipswich in the semi of milk cup, by that stage I was late teens and around 6ft. It was quite common in those days to send the little ones to the front.

Yep, what the hell is actually Ethics Canarys gripe?. Was he hoodwinked by the Club , misled perhaps? Did he not read the small print? Are we not bemused? Answers on a postcard to Ethics Canary, 13 Gripe st. , Unsubstantiated insunuationtown, Boringland. The World( is against me).

You'll already know what I would say.

Further devolvement to the point of separation looks almost inevitable. This all started with England and the whole British Empire has been heading back to its component parts for years. So it was originally just England, then became England and Wales, then it added Ireland and Scotland then continued expanding across the world.......but it started out with just England. I suppose you could start paring it back further and divide England up too, like Cornwall getting independence and so on. How far back it goes is open to question, but imo it is not a bad thing. It means a different approach to politics - smaller countries who would have to work together in the common cause of mutual well being. Scotland would be better being independent from Westminster......it might be poorer, but then it would need good relations with England to boost its economy. So they might be separate, but the affiliations would still be strong and mutually beneficial. I'm English, but also half Scottish, but I would be happy to see an independent Scotland Ireland and Wales...and even Cornwall if it comes to that....times are changing and old structures are gradually being stripped of what holds them together. New ways of working together would emerge and England would still be strong within the overall picture. Different, but still strong - and without that sense of jingoism that is part of the English culture of thinking they own or have a right to own other countries, the English might learn to be a more humble as a nation.

At least irony isn't dead

Mark Palios making the point that PPG is unfair last night. Obviously Tranmere are in the bottom three so he will be accused of self interest but he is someone with some clout who will be part of the EFL discussions today.

He's dodgy enough as a manager; I dread to think what he'd get up to as an owner. Paperwork and documents would be completely out of the question and he'd probably have his toaster as the legal owner. The only winners would be producers of brown envelopes and Niko Kranjcar.

Always thought that about Deeney, he always speaks well. I know nothing of his background but I know he is not popular with some , yet he for me has always been a ' wish was ours' player. A clear leader....just look at the impact he had on his return to the lineup this season. While the likes of Joey Barton try to sound smart yet end up looking foolish, Deeney manages to communicate very well without any affectations. Any player that doesnt fancy joining in with the three ring circus that the season has become , should be allowed the respect of not being asked why. Anyone with half a brain knows why , no one needs to know the personal reasons behind them making that decision. As someone said above, there will be others ,maybe enough to show this farce up for what it is. Sky etc and the EPL are too cosy. What was once sport is becoming a Soap Opera with daily episodes.

I went to the club and had a wonderful time. They played 'Jump Around' and we jumped around. They played 'Sit Down' and we sat down. They played 'Come on Eileen' and I got thrown out.

What happens if players get pulled off at half time ?