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I’ve put this in another thread where it’s likely to get lost and missed but I think it deserves its own thread as I believe many posters on here will strongly agree with the points it raises..... The question of when and in what form professional football can be played has been the subject of much discussion in the past few days and weeks. In the still partly confusing social situation, a variety of ethical, epidemiological and other arguments were put forward by various actors. In the following, we would like to comment on the topic as a nationwide association of fan scenes and with a view to the DFL general assembly: The resumption of football, also in the form of ghost games, is not justifiable in the current situation - especially not under the guise of social responsibility. An early continuation of the season would be a mockery of the rest of society and especially those who are really committed to helping the Corona crisis. Professional football has long been sick enough and should remain in quarantine. We take the clear position that there cannot be a Lex Bundesliga. Football is of great importance in Germany, but it is certainly not systemically important. Restrictions that apply to comparable areas of the sports and entertainment industry must also apply in football. At a time when we are all accepting very massive restrictions on our fundamental rights in the interests of the common good, it is out of the question for the Bundesliga to play. If a lack of capacity in CoVid-19 tests has been reported for weeks, the idea of screening football players for the virus at extremely high frequencies is simply absurd. Not to mention the practice of a soccer game with one-on-one matches, normal training activities in times of assembly prohibitions and a joint pursuit of potential ghost games by fans. The talk of social responsibility and plans for exclusive test contingents (over 20,000 pieces) for professional football do not go together. We understand that club officials have legal obligations to act in the financial interests of their club. However, in a situation in which the entire society and economy face enormous challenges, it is incomprehensible to us that apparently all concerns are put aside when it comes to keeping the game going as long as possible or starting again. Obviously, professional football has much deeper problems. A system into which sums of money beyond the imagination of many people have flowed in recent years is on the verge of collapse. The preservation of the structures is completely dependent on the flow of television funds, the clubs only exist in a total dependence on the rights holders.  The question of why, despite all the millions, there seems to be no sustainability in professional football, how the structures and clubs can be made more robust and crisis-proof in the future, has at least not been asked by any official. The only communicated goal is to get on with it as quickly as possible, which, however, only guarantees a manageable number of participants with outstanding income. In most cases, we simply regard the talk of tens of thousands of jobs as an excuse to continue securing exorbitant millions of earnings for a few extreme profiteers. This can also be seen in the absolute inactivity of the DFB, with regard to football below the 2nd Bundesliga. The fact that ghost games have much more serious consequences here than in the DFL leagues is ignored. The main thing is that the “premium product” can continue to exist. Here, the DFB not only does not fulfill its role, it also repeatedly shows whose interests it represents. For years, fans have been demanding reforms for a fairer distribution of TV revenues and criticized the lack of solidarity between large and small clubs. We point out financial excesses, insufficient reserves and the sometimes blackmailing role of player advisors. We have repeatedly demonstrated the risk of dependence on individual large donors using examples such as 1860 Munich, Carl Zeiss Jena and others. At the latest, it is high time that football officials seriously deal with these points. The current challenge is also an opportunity: associations should understand this crisis as such and fundamentally change the structures of modern football. It's about time! In this context we demand: The DFL's current plan to restart gaming in May in the form of ghost games must not be implemented. We do not presume to decide when the ball can roll again. However, in a situation in which football would so decouple from the rest of society, it must not happen. An objective examination of the current situation must be promoted and a move away from the blind saving of TV money must be made. A possible termination of the season should not be a taboo, unless the social circumstances allow it otherwise. In this case, not only should horror scenarios in the form of impending bankruptcies be outlined, but solutions in the form of promotional loans, extended insolvency periods and other crisis instruments that the rest of the economy is facing should also be discussed. An upcoming solution must be based on solidarity. There must be no crisis winners and losers among the clubs. The gap between "large" and "small" must not widen further. We expressly include the clubs of the third division and the regional leagues for which ghost games are not an option anyway. The discussion of fundamental reforms to make professional football more sustainable and economically more crisis-proof must begin now. It must not only be managed by fans and journalists, but is the central task of those responsible for the clubs and associations. Structures and clubs must be brought back on a financially and ideally secure basis. The 50 + 1 rule must remain unaffected. The phase of a football world completely decoupled from the rest of society must come to an end!“ Germany's fan scenes in April 2020

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hopes-million-coronavirus-vaccines-september-21886757 The first human trials of a jab which is being developed at the University of Oxford are set to begin next week. Although it is too early to say if it will be safe or effective, Professor Sarah Gilbert, who is leading the research, has previously said she is 80% confident it will be successful. "This is my view, because I've worked with this technology a lot, and I've worked on the Mers-vaccine trials, and I've seen what that can do," the vaccinology professor said. A professor who's 80% confident it will work, that's a good chance. It's a shame for RTB that he'll have to pass on the vaccine due to being infected by Marxists. 😀

Threes a charm(Or a Managua in this instance)

Indeed Germany elected a scientist as leader and the UK an after dinner speaker. And we all know the background to why that happened. Boring pragmatic evidence based reality over jingoistic ideology. No doubt some will continue to deny their culpability and think it is a price worth paying. It was never going to be easy but the UK has a government chosen based on ideology rather than ability. Lessons to be learned.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8232135/Mexico-SUSPENDS-relegation-promotion-two-divisions-FIVE-years.html Mexican league football owners have voted to suspend relegation and promotion between the country's top two divisions for five years. This makes the most sense, five years in the Premier League is well deserved for our club. 😀

Exactly. And unless the Efl can finish their season and actually have their promotion slots sorted then those teams would find it hard to take legal action when nothing has mathematically been concluded

No chance. You can’t relegate and promote when nothing has mathematically been achieved. The court battles from the relegated bottom three would stop any future season starting. Had the same thing happened last season Leeds would have been promoted with us, and Villa weren’t even in the play offs. All of the bottom three can still comfortably escape, there’s absolutely no guarantee the championship top 2 would be that at the end of the season. The only other way out of it instead of null and void is that the PL call it as it is with no relegation and no promotion from the championship, or the PL call it as it is with no relegation and invite two teams up from the championship, and then leave the ball in the Efl’s court on if they can get a vote and agree on the top 2 going up.

I'm playing Retro Football Manager on Android. Just updated and can play the 1988/89 season, first game lost to Liverpool.. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rfm Enjoy....

Blame the bloody server, get a proper computer bod on the job. To many unbuntu's

Now getting 404 not found !

I should set off early, if I were you .................it can be quite a long haul on a bike

NHS frontline staff may walk out over lack of PPE, say unions https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/18/nhs-frontline-staff-may-refuse-to-work-over-lack-of-coronavirus-ppe-says-union-unison? I wonder whether staff will act on this situation though? Biggest story rumbling over the last few weeks, last few days especially.

Seems to be every weekend

This just isn't good enough. I can't understand why they aren't the first to be tested.

Surely it would be the other way round? The same number of players but fewer clubs.

They are saying there is no evidence They are not saying there isn’t immunity It will take time to know naturally S Korea reported some people coming back but when they checked they think is was the same Infection. flaring up again in a few people according to local doctor. The General expectation is there will be immunity but how much and how long is not known yet.

Thanks yes they are saying locally no crowds until at least after August But they are saying that they can Image closed door games before then but nothing confirmed yet. Federal government are saying in principal closed door games are allowed but it will be up to the local states to decide. Shops, schools and factories are gradually set to start opening up next week and in May in Germany. The problem with football is of course is you can’t maintain distance so that will mean testing and socially only acceptable once available to general public. Germany are rapidly expanding testing in the next few weeks so football could be possible in a few weeks. Always best to read and listen to the original sources if you can rather than second hand reports.

I don't agree with the way the memberships were set up either, but I was merely suggesting that rather than the bond scheme causing some kind of shortall, it was more likely any perceived shortfall would have been from the reduction of tickets to £30 for casuals and away clubs' fans. The bond scheme worked brilliantly for the club - a total win win project. The club got better facilities without having to resort to expensive loans and fans got the benefit of a decent rate of interest on any savings they put into it - and the one year 5% interest plus the bonus payout was still much better for the club than if they had got a bank loan over five years at some ridiculous borrowing rate.

Vorsprung durch technik!.....

Shame it's raining as the surface will be slippery but that will make it even more exciting. Going to get a haircut then after lunch head down to the Queen of Iceni for a couple of pints and natter before the game. I just hope we win against ipswich as to be in the Play offs final at Wembly will be amazing. I admit i am a bit confused though as didn't we play the final last week? See you all there !!!!!

I'm glad I read that. It is a more coherent and thought out report than I could possibly have written but is exactly how I feel about football in this country. Does anyone know about the insurance for footballers. If they should attempt to play behind closed doors, testing would not matter a hoot. The test is only good for that test. It is to tell if you have got it, not that you haven't. So if they played a game behind close doors and a player had the virus unbeknown then it could be passed on to virtually everyone there. How could they be insured for that outcome? Surely the government would have to step in and tell them they cannot do it. They have to meet the self distancing requirements.

Great letter, so level headed those Germans. Interesting because I perceive Germany light years ahead of the UK in terms of testing capability, yet they still see it a waste to test professional footballers. So do I. I also think it shows lack of social responsibility to even consider resuming the football leagues in the current climate. Season over.

We were told at the time that there should be no expectation of dividends. We bought the shares because we wanted to, not for financial gain.

Brilliant.

The perils of 'playing out from the back' ably demonstrated in 1978.

Bump. 20. DC

Open letter from German fans groups... The question of when and in what form professional football can be played has been the subject of much discussion in the past few days and weeks. In the still partly confusing social situation, a variety of ethical, epidemiological and other arguments were put forward by various actors. In the following, we would like to comment on the topic as a nationwide association of fan scenes and with a view to the DFL general assembly: The resumption of football, also in the form of ghost games, is not justifiable in the current situation - especially not under the guise of social responsibility. An early continuation of the season would be a mockery of the rest of society and especially those who are really committed to helping the Corona crisis. Professional football has long been sick enough and should remain in quarantine. We take the clear position that there cannot be a Lex Bundesliga. Football is of great importance in Germany, but it is certainly not systemically important. Restrictions that apply to comparable areas of the sports and entertainment industry must also apply in football. At a time when we are all accepting very massive restrictions on our fundamental rights in the interests of the common good, it is out of the question for the Bundesliga to play. If a lack of capacity in CoVid-19 tests has been reported for weeks, the idea of screening football players for the virus at extremely high frequencies is simply absurd. Not to mention the practice of a soccer game with one-on-one matches, normal training activities in times of assembly prohibitions and a joint pursuit of potential ghost games by fans. The talk of social responsibility and plans for exclusive test contingents (over 20,000 pieces) for professional football do not go together. We understand that club officials have legal obligations to act in the financial interests of their club. However, in a situation in which the entire society and economy face enormous challenges, it is incomprehensible to us that apparently all concerns are put aside when it comes to keeping the game going as long as possible or starting again. Obviously, professional football has much deeper problems. A system into which sums of money beyond the imagination of many people have flowed in recent years is on the verge of collapse. The preservation of the structures is completely dependent on the flow of television funds, the clubs only exist in a total dependence on the rights holders. The question of why, despite all the millions, there seems to be no sustainability in professional football, how the structures and clubs can be made more robust and crisis-proof in the future, has at least not been asked by any official. The only communicated goal is to get on with it as quickly as possible, which, however, only guarantees a manageable number of participants with outstanding income. In most cases, we simply regard the talk of tens of thousands of jobs as an excuse to continue securing exorbitant millions of earnings for a few extreme profiteers. This can also be seen in the absolute inactivity of the DFB, with regard to football below the 2nd Bundesliga. The fact that ghost games have much more serious consequences here than in the DFL leagues is ignored. The main thing is that the “premium product” can continue to exist. Here, the DFB not only does not fulfill its role, it also repeatedly shows whose interests it represents. For years, fans have been demanding reforms for a fairer distribution of TV revenues and criticized the lack of solidarity between large and small clubs. We point out financial excesses, insufficient reserves and the sometimes blackmailing role of player advisors. We have repeatedly demonstrated the risk of dependence on individual large donors using examples such as 1860 Munich, Carl Zeiss Jena and others. At the latest, it is high time that football officials seriously deal with these points. The current challenge is also an opportunity: associations should understand this crisis as such and fundamentally change the structures of modern football. It's about time! In this context we demand: The DFL's current plan to restart gaming in May in the form of ghost games must not be implemented. We do not presume to decide when the ball can roll again. However, in a situation in which football would so decouple from the rest of society, it must not happen. An objective examination of the current situation must be promoted and a move away from the blind saving of TV money must be made. A possible termination of the season should not be a taboo, unless the social circumstances allow it otherwise. In this case, not only should horror scenarios in the form of impending bankruptcies be outlined, but solutions in the form of promotional loans, extended insolvency periods and other crisis instruments that the rest of the economy is facing should also be discussed. An upcoming solution must be based on solidarity. There must be no crisis winners and losers among the clubs. The gap between "large" and "small" must not widen further. We expressly include the clubs of the third division and the regional leagues for which ghost games are not an option anyway. The discussion of fundamental reforms to make professional football more sustainable and economically more crisis-proof must begin now. It must not only be managed by fans and journalists, but is the central task of those responsible for the clubs and associations. Structures and clubs must be brought back on a financially and ideally secure basis. The 50 + 1 rule must remain unaffected. The phase of a football world completely decoupled from the rest of society must come to an end!“ Germany's fan scenes in April 2020

If knowledge of these things is measured on a scale of 0-100 I'm a firm 18 I reckon. On that basis.... My limited understanding is that the adaptive immune system has two main cell families T and B. T cells kill or target our cells that have gone rogue (infected by a virus, cancerous etc). B cells produce antibodies that have lots of functions mainly based around them. Ring a real nuisance to the invader. Both families create memory cells that allow us to mount a far better defence against a pathogen than the first time we encountered it. I have absolutely no idea if an infection always creates a memory in both cell families or if antibodies can always be detected in the blood. In other words I know just about enough to wonder if we can be immune (because we have a highly tuned T cell reaponse ready to go) and still have no antibodies for a test to detect. The pink un forum is probably not the best place to have these discussions admittedly.

Apart from that Greek bloke, Vasper was the worst I’ve ever seen “ clap hands here comes Vasper “

4 football related/themed tracks Chelsea, Van Basten, Serious Drinking, and finally The G.O.A.T - The Fall 🙂

The main thing that this graph shows is how slow we are at reporting deaths. I would say though that it's doubtful we have the full tally for any day from 5th April yet. That being said I cant see much in the data to suggest that 8th april was not the start of the peak. Probably too early to say we are going down the other side but reason enough to think that we are walking on flat ground.

As I’ve posted on another thread. When my son can attend school and play in the playground with his friends with no social distancing in place is when football can be played again. Not a moment sooner. To do otherwise and allow multi millionaire players to play a game of football but not allow the same freedoms to children ect would be a terrible advert for the game and highly unlikely to be allowed by government

While I'm no fan of the owners of either paper, I will never understand the mindset of some people that they are entitled to read and watch everything for free.

The grounds will still be there, the players will still have their boots, the fans will want to watch footy when all this is over.....a well overdue restructuring and introduction of realism to an unsustainable model.

Not the case, I have very principled views on lots of things and I'm happy to see those challenged. I don't think the club have handled this perfectly. Sinani is a total misnomer because this was pretty much tied up in January. The announcement is poor timing but we won't be paying him until next season so it's a total red herring to say that we've signed him whilst furloughing staff.... he also presumably will be on relatively low wages for a playing member of staff coming from the Luxembourg league. On the furloughing issue itself, I don't know enough about the club finances but would rather see them furlough than p45 the non-playing staff. The main point is not TvB's viewpoint or perspective being different, I don't care about that.... which is sort of the point. If that's what he wants to do, then fine, no objections, but I'm not sure what he was expecting to get out of making this post.... the entire purpose of it is just attention seeking, holier than thou, toys out the pram ****.

The furloughing thing has been misunderstood by those that are vehemently against it and those that have an extreme position on it are just plain over reacting. A rich club can afford to weather any financial storm but we are not rich. The business model (the most self financing club in the top league) is such that all the good work that has been done to get us where we are could be wiped out and return us to being a club in debt and basically living beyond its means, very quickly - a position that would see mass redundancies at the club and put the club in jeopardy again. Is that what people really want? As always some seem to think there is money washing around the club but in reality whatever money is there, be it 10 or 15 million or whatever will soon disappear on wages should next season become in jeopardy or if TV money is curtailed. Yes we could sell players, yeah, why not just sell off the assets and not replace them, so that we don't have the quality to compete at whatever level we are at, drop down the league and watch as the club has to make people redundant. So all in all, even if you think the club should not be doing this furloughing, surely you can see the other side to your extreme position? The scheme is legitimate and in our case being used for the right reasons. Spurs and other super rich clubs can weather a storm..... because they are rich. We are not - and there is a strong argument to say that we are using it correctly - as many other clubs will be who do not have super rich owners. As for away mugging, there is justification for criticism there, but that has been addressed. As for the new signing, that is something that there was probably an agreement in place way before now so again, another over reaction. We all understand how bad things are at the moment, but at some stage things will have to be dealt with in terms of getting football up and running again and many less rich clubs and businesses will be using the furlough scheme. I'm not happy about anyone needing to use a furlough scheme - but it has been put in place to protect jobs and that is what it will do. Money in football is going to dry up fast with no football happening and no or less TV money but players wages will have to be paid. If next season looks like being delayed - and it does look like that will happen - they may agree to some kind of temporary cut in wages - but even with a 30% cut, clubs without big resources are going to struggle or go to the wall. Much better then that clubs like ours who have a genuine sustainable business model are protected then.

"My God, you lot really don't like to be challenged do you?" - It's funny this is aimed at us instead of the guy jacking in his season ticket and leaving the forum because he couldn't accept not everyone agreed with his viewpoint. I don't have a problem with TVB posting what he posts - I disagree with some of it and find the arguments he uses to back up his claims lacking somewhat more often than not but have seen a lot of his posts on here as similar to the 'devils advocate' role. You're getting way ahead of yourself - TVB has declared he's no longer renewing his season ticket and won't be on the forum for a while - and people have responded telling him they really don't care - what responses did you expect from them exactly? it's an Internet forum. TVB has been one of the more aggressive posters on here the past few months and these are the expected results. If you and others disagree with the furlough decision that's fine. I personally, when I consider our owners wealth and way they run this club, find it hard to see why we shouldn't be using this option. If you disagree that's fine. Who has told you you can't challenge the clubs decision? All I've seen is repetitive posts and the same answers to them. Is that your idea of your views not being allowed - getting the same responses to the same questions? But before trying to tell us we have no principles sgncfc I do hope people like you are consistent whilst sat atop your moral high horse. I'd hate to think your wearing clothes made in a sweatshop, an iPhone (or one of many modern phones made in sweatshop style factories) and that you'll be steering clear of other, much larger companies than Norwich City who have also used the Furlough scheme.

No one has said you can't question the decisions. In fact, most of TvBs threads are him spilling his views everywhere, telling everyone they're wrong and inviting conflict. It's a bit difficult to castigate one side of an argument for being stubborn & blinkered at the same time as praising the other for the steadfastness. And as the two chaps above go on to say, we aren't actually arguing any of this at all- it's more that I have as much interest in what Paul Lambert has on his cornflakes as I do whether TvB is renewing next year.

Each to their own; you do what you want to. I am however, not sure why you expect anyone to care enough to justify making this statement?

Pathetic. Dither, dither and dither.

Our defence been doing this all season.!

Isn’t that 19?