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Today’s game highlights just what standard of football Farke has bought to City, with Youth, 2,3 & 4 division German league players and free transfers. Now imagine next season with money to invest and the future looks very bright, even if we have another season in the championship. We are in a fantastic position even if we sell a couple of our stars, money will be there to build.

Nobody wants this surely? The beautiful game is being made ugly. It's not just us, though it feels like we are getting it worse. I think all fans hate it. The powers that be need to be listening to that. They have ruined the game. Absolutely ruined it. Im angry, not just for my team, but for my sport. Surely all football fans are in agreement that todays decision is bad for the game

I'm very nearly done with football too. It's a disgrace. Every part of it. From the pathetic diving, to the overpaid prima donas, to the blatant 'luck' the big teams get in decisions, to the unbelievably poor application of a technology which is proven to increase success rate.

Fair play, he's played really well since returning to the side. Good old fashioned centre half. Whisper it, but exactly what we've been missing.

After many years of use I put aside my lucky City scarf today as the magic seems to have drained out of it. Mrs R bought me one of those new scarves that have the smart very thin stripes a few months ago, but I've been reluctant to give up on the old favourite until now. I thought I would give it an outing tonight just to see if the luck would change. I assume the four changes were due to resting certain players but it was nice to see Vrancic get a start and although Byrom has played well, Lewis has done little wrong before the injury. Steipermann and Hernandez completed the line up. Once again we were treated to a cagey five minutes with both sides playing sideways rather than forward.. City were the first to show some intent when Hernandez broke down the left before Lewis had a speculative crack from twenty five yards that fizzed a yard wide of the visitors left post. Then on eight minutes, Gazzinga, in the Spurs net had to make a smart save to his right as Steipermann evaded a couple of tackles in the box and toe poked the ball towards the far corner. We were still rueing this opportunity when Spurs had an even better one at the other end. Zimmerman hit a pass straight at an opponent and the ball bounced kindly for Kane to bear down on goal. Hanley forced him wide but the pass set up Deli, for what from our end look like a tap in. Somehow he side footed it over the bar. City were starting to dominate now and were playing some nice stuff with Buendia at the heart of everything. Just past the quarter hour the little Argentine won a midfield duel and the ball broke kindly for Vrancic who surged forward down the middle. He had good options to both left and right but the Spurs defence seemed to part like the Red Sea and he let fly from the edge of the area with a shot that Gazzinga got half a hand to, but could not prevent City deservedly going one up. Spurs upped the pace and there was a hairy moment when Kane looked to be through from a long ball but somehow Krul was off his line quick enough to deflect the ball for a corner. Then minutes later a combination of Hanley and Zimmerman deflected another goal bound shot. City were still giving as good as they got in what was a good open game. With Tetty and Buendia snapping into tackles in midfield City were seeing plenty of the ball and Spurs had to defend strongly at times. Just after the half hour it looked like City had doubled their lead when Vrancic, hooked a superb ball for Pukki to chase down the middle. The City talisman chested the ball down and made a few yards before driving the ball past Gazzinga, into the net. The crowd went into raptures and the players were already lining up for the restart when there was a VAR check signalled. There had been no flag and no appeal from the Spurs defenders and again it took more than a couple of minutes for someone three hundred miles away to decide that Pukki was half an inch offside. This is killing the game that we know and love and even if it means mistakes will occur, I feel we need to go back to the old system. It's becoming almost impossible to celebrate a goal spontaneously anymore. At the half I felt we were fairly comfortable and worth our lead but in the light of recent home games there was little room for complacency. Spurs brought on Lucas Mora, at the start of the second period and immediately looked a better side. Krul, had to go full length to his right to keep out a shot but the City defense appeared to be keeping Spurs at arms length. With ten minutes gone Kane clearly fouled Lewis on the edge of our box as he leapt to clear. In the act of tumbling his arm brushed the ball and to the amazement of all around me, Mr. Friend gave the visitors a free kick. Such are the small margins, and if someone would have laid me evens I would have bet that Eriksen would score from it, which he duly did. It was very disheartening and Spurs might have had another only for Deli to be pulled up for offside. Just after the hour mark City finally had a stroke of luck of their own. Pukki found himself in space in the area and as defenders moved to close him down the ball seemed to change direction and leave the keeper stranded, going past his left hand as he was falling to the right. All was right with the world again but City were now pushed right back as Spurs upped the pressure. Vrancic had taken a couple of knocks and Steipermann appeared to be running on empty so it was no surprise when they were swapped for McLean and Trybull. As time ticked down there were a series of desperate blocks as City held on and even Pukki was drawn back to bolster the barricades. One of those blocks from Zimmerman was truly memorable but he took some punishment in the process. I was just beginning to think we would hang on when City broke away down the left only for Trybull to lose possession on the halfway line. A quick ball was played to Kane cutting into the area from the right and this time Zimmerman got it all wrong and went right through him for a nailed on penalty. Krul did his usual but Kane's shot into the corner was unstoppable, even had timmy gone the right way. Cantwell came on for the tiring Tetty but City could not force another chance but at the very least they continued to hold Spurs at arms length and I thought that in the end they were well worth the hard earned point. The annoying thing is that we have looked so good at times this season without getting much reward. Surely at some stage we will win a game playing poorly. Other teams seem to manage it on a fairly regular basis. I am in two minds about the new scarf because the luck was a bit mixed tonight but I shall wear it again on Wednesday and hope it has warmed up a bit. Buendia again superb, Mario, great vision and a fine goal.

Jesus man, just for once and for all our sakes, give it rest.

Just put this post up on my facebook page, thought it was relevant to share my thoughts here: I really do wonder how many more points and results we're going to have robbed from us yet again this season. We've always been on the poorer end of decisions, particularly against the top 6 sides, but now we've got VAR to contend with on top of dodgy refereeing. A good match today was completely spoiled by VAR. It's a perfect ball over the top for Pukki to take brilliantly and finish calmly, none of the Spurs defenders even attempted to claim Pukki was offside, nor did their Keeper, the assistant referee, the referee himself, nor about 24k+ fans (of both sides) inside the ground, yet VAR gets involved, takes 3 minutes of analysing dots, lines and god knows what else, to finally decide that apparently, Pukki's shoulder was a millimetre in front of the defenders knee when the ball was played by Vrancic... Decisions like this ruin the beautiful game, and I'd thought that VAR was introduced to deal with any clear or obvious errors by the match officials, well, I'm sorry, but something that NOBODY thought was offside and took minutes of computer analysis (along with the 4th officials interpretation of the offside law) to make a call ISN'T clear and obvious, nor was there a clear and obvious error by anyone in the process - so why did VAR even get involved anyway??? Is this what we've got to look forward to these days in football? Moments of great play and skill completely invalidated by a computer system and dodgy interpretations of the laws of the game? Are we going to see more and more matches with 7-10 minutes of additional time, because VAR has analysed everything to death, destroyed the flow of the game, and pissed off all the fans in the process? I know it's a work in progress, but the consistency of the system all season has been shocking, it's totally undermining the referee who already has a tough enough job to begin with, in the age of diving players, deliberate time-wasting, being surrounded by 10 players every time he blows his whistle, the last thing we need is VAR sticking its nose into everything unnecessarily on top of this. We should have been 2-0 up by half-time leaving Spurs a much tougher job in the 2nd half, but take nothing away from them, it was a great free-kick from Eriksen, Kane won his penalty (and it WAS a penalty) with clever play, and 2nd half they were the better side, but they still should have been starting that half two goals down, which would have completely changed the complexion of the game, and who knows what the final result would have been. On a final note, I firmly believe that if our disallowed 2nd goal had been scored by the likes of Liverpool, Man City or any of the 'big' sides, there's no way it's being chalked off, instead, they'd be raving about a fantastic pass from Firmino and amazing skill from Salah to finish it, or saying how good De Bruyne is with that pass, and what a great bit of composure it was from Aguero to score, but no, we're Norwich, and we're not allowed to show 'big' sides up with our play, so instead we get royally screwed on a regular basis just to make sure it doesn't happen. I wouldn't be surprised if someone at the PFA or Premier League wasn't fired after our result against Man City earlier in the season...

To do that though the angle has to be in line. How the **** anyone can overturn the ref's decision based on that bizarre angle is ridiculous. The NFL manages to do it just fine so there's no excuse for VAR to get it wrong in a sport where the line is much easier to see. The rule in the NFL is that if there is no clear evidence to overturn it then the ruling on the field stands, which is how it should be. Ref can use monitor at pitch-side to clarify at any point, as it should be.

Should have been 3-2. Nuff said.

I'm still proud of our performance. We have competed all the way. Some serious differences in squads. Spurs have been able to build over years.

Live scenes as VAR fail to find a reason to disallow the o.g.

Nobody watching this game can say that decision was good for football as a whole. Amazing pass, wonderful control and lovely finish, all in the bin thanks to VAR. I bet that wouldn't have been disallowed if it was Liverpool, Man City or similar who'd just scored it...

Who here thinks that if had have been Harry Kane scoring that goal instead of Pukki, it would have been given? Because I think it would have been a goal

Your parole officer? OTBC

Firstly, there was one point on which I was unclear; when I referred to the next 'owner', I meant the next owner of the footballing philosophy, ie. Webber/Farke. I just meant that when either Webber or Farke leave their post, it's vitally important that the other one stays for a year to ensure that the philosophy is continued and the good habits are passed on. I'm not sure how you've reached the conclusion that I'm happy to see a team who 'makes up the numbers'. What I'm saying is that the model we are using now is the best model we could use considering our ownership status. It's sustainable, it's long-term, it isn't 'boom and bust'. I am prepared to accept relegation if it happens, because we've got a model that gives us a good chance of getting back up again. Comparisons to Liverpool and Manchester City are utterly pointless. If we were a club of that size and stature with our ownership model, I certainly wouldn't be happy. Leicester is - as pretty much everyone has agreed - the perfect example of big foreign investment done right. Wolves is another example. There must have been a hundred threads on here going round in circles about this point, with Wolves/Leicester/Bournemouth on the one hand, and Bolton/Coventry/Blackburn on the other. Some people are desperate to gamble with big investment, some people are vehemently against it, and a great deal more (including me) live in the middle ground. All things are relative, and Delia and Michael have looked after this club for 23 years while the game has steadily become richer and richer, and they've become poorer and poorer. The club is in a better financial state now than it has been at any point in those 23 years, which is surely something they should be applauded for? Don't you think they've done a good job to get us to this point despite having nothing to actually invest? One final point: at no point here have I said I am 'happy' to continue with this ownership model indefinitely. I am concerned about Tom Smith taking over the shareholding, as he has neither the experience nor the general goodwill to keep our fans on side. I would like to see fresh investment, and I'm sure that if we find ourselves marooned in the Championship (or worse) with Tom at the helm, the weight of public opinion will change very quickly. EDIT: regarding the text in bold, the starting point was when Webber was appointed in 2017. And we'll be in a better position because we've entirely cleared the club's debts, have lots of talented youngsters with PL experience and a high market value, a flourishing Cat 1 Academy, and a recruitment team that's done better with signings than any other one in recent memory.

This season should never have even happened. You'd do well to remember that when you're all crying about how we're going down again. Look at our ****ing squad, look where they came from. We've got academy players, players from German league 4, players we signed on free transfers. We shouldn't be anywhere near the Premier League, yet here we are and we're not completely out of it despite how bleak it looks. Even if we go down, what this manager has achieved with peanuts cannot be overstated. Would you rather be a club that spends 15 years in the Championship?

There is the main positive to take from today. Yes, West Ham have played one game less, but they could well lose that. So one point closer to safety and everything to play for. OTBC

Just be who you want to be mate, its a free country. But other people are also free to find you annoying.

Defenders don't appeal for offside, because they know it's not. Keeper doesn't appeal for offside, because he knows it's not. Ref and Assistant Refs don't call an offside, because they know it's not. 25k fans don't think it's offside, because it's not. Commentators and Pundits don't think it's offside, because it's not. Yet some c**t in the VAR van decides after using MS Paint for 3 minutes that it's offside - even though it isn't. Go figure...

I checked the scores on my phone whilst watching our game (Leics), and you guys were winning. checked a bit later, about 3/4 into the game and still leading, at that point I thought you would win. After FT, I checked again and you couldn't hold out, and was also due to a penalty 😞 Feel for you guys as after the game at the King Power I know your team is capable, you not out of it yet though, keep your chins up, and fight till the end.

Tell you what, how about you just block me then you patronising old tw*t.

That’s very harsh. He looks short of confidence but he looked to me like he put himself about well today, some good build up play and nearly scored. Deservedly substituted but I didn’t think he looked unbothered.

Did they ask for photos of the missus?

Theyre making the rules up as they go along....for that goal to have been ruled out ,someone in that VAR booth actively wants to rule that out with a ulterior motive. Theyve fast fowarded/rewound their technology to make it look like that red line was in front of the blue at any fixed point in time.....its corrupt and I hope Mike Riley gets the flu...

We can play Wolves off the pitch, fail to put our chances away and whilst we can blame bad luck, ultimately we can only look at ourselves. Play Tottenham and Arsenal off the pitch. VAR intervenes in both games to rob us of a result. I cant take that. Infuriating as the Wolves result was, we werent cheated

VAR has 100% ruined football. They just make up new rules as they go along. It is a shambles

There won't be one person in the country who will agree with that decision (of course Spurs fans will be relieved). That shows what a farce VAR is.

The t**t in the van should be interviewed and made to justify his decision. Then sacked for being a t**t

Better use of subs by Farke this game so far...

It should just be feet. Nothing else. No knees, shoulders, heads or trouser snakes.

What annoys me most is the line that has been drawn up to his shoulder is not in the right place. If the line was drawn where his arm is, it would show he was onside. The technology is NOT accurate. It just isn't. Apparently it is "calibrated" well the calibration is not right. It's ruining football.

Yup, obviously trying to cover up their mistake. They really are totally useless biased c**ts

Shows the absolute worst of VAR, nobody on the pitch or in the stands complained of offside, nobody on the pitch could possibly judge that was offside as we're talking the scantest of millimetres, and yet the goal is chalked off regardless. I thought VAR was meant to check dubious or uncertain decisions, rather than be utilised for stuff like this. Also, the interpretation of the law as just stated on the commentary is absolute drivel, it doesn't matter than he was initially offside, he came back onside before the ball was played, and that's what counts, not that he was previously offside ffs. Complete disgrace, and yet again we get screwed by VAR...

He was the Simeon Jackson to Pukkis Grant Holt. Came alive in the last quarter of the season and pushed us over the line

Absolutely - this year has been amazing as a Norwich fan. While I accept the table makes grim reading, and a lot of people have thrown in the towel already, I choose to stay positive.

Next week Paul reviews a MADRAS. 😀

RTB wanted Larry Grayson's book "I'm Camp".........

Wow, I’ve just read this thread and have many thoughts, but the one way out front is how many of the posters have the ability to see the future. If Farke had made earlier substitutions at Sheff Utd, Wolves and Villa, we would be nine points better off, if we’d spent £15 million more in the summer, we’d be out of the bottom three, if the club ownership changed, lots of money would be pumped in and we would be Leicester, if the club was advertised for sale, it would be sold, even Lakey’s there are more great results around the corner. The beauty of football, which is exemplified by our recent history, is its unpredictability. Who expected our performance last season, or the results against Man City and Leicester? I love being a City supporter and a big part of that is what we’ve achieved against the odds. I’ve said before how my in-laws are from Liverpool and my biggest gripe with them is that they seem to be constantly whinging, nothing is good enough. I’m glad we’re not Man City, buying their success. To have that sense of entitlement and be disappointed at the slightest reverse would not be for me. As a wise friend who had been through some awful personal recent experiences once said to me “you can’t have the highs without the lows”. I agree many results have been disappointing this season and I’m getting bored of saying to people “we deserved better”. But what makes us Norwich City is our budget, our owner, our history and our “model” of doing it the hard way. Own it, be proud of it, celebrate it! (How’d I do Lakey?)

It seems to me that there is a third camp here and maybe it's not as black and white as you paint it. I like Delia and Michael. I respect everything they've done for the club. I appreciate they have probably reached their ceiling but also understand that I don't want them to sell to just anybody. It needs to be decent owners like the list you mention though as there are plenty of not so decent ones too. Some of us understand that whilst we need the backing if we're to ever compete in the Prem, there are an awful lot of clubs that have been taken over by rich backers and then gone bust..... I don't want Delia and Michael in charge forever, but I also don't want to get sold to the next Marcus Evans arms dealer type. If that means accepting the current plan, and making sure the future of the club is financially secure so we can get the right owner in future and don't end up like Portsmouth, instead of just wanting us sold to the highest bidder even if it's a total lunatic like Tony Xia or a scumbag like Mike Ashley, then some of us are happy to accept that it is for the greater good.

I think there's been a lot of good debate on here in the last couple of days, and a lot of examples of people with very differing opinions having a really fair exchange of opinions. Long may it continue. As to this post, I'd make a few points in reply: 1) I'm not oblivious to the other 20+ years of D&M's ownership. They have never been rich owners in the grand scheme of things, but they are getting poorer all the time in comparison with the obscene amounts of money being pumped into the game. Considering they are financially weaker now than they have ever been, what they have overseen in the last two years has been fantastic. I know Webber and Farke must take the overall credit for the results on the pitch, but we have to be wary of going down the "Delia's fault when we're doing badly, manager's credit when we're doing well" syndrome. If they were to step down tomorrow, they will be leaving the club in a healthier position than they inherited it in, which is all the more laudable given their lack of financial clout. 2) I think it's totally fair comment that we're around the ceiling of what we can achieve under this ownership. The model could work like a charm for another couple of years; we might come straight back up with an even stronger squad, and survive the season after next. But an awful lot of stars would need to align for that to happen, and every subsequent season we survived would be an even greater miracle. 3) Whether D&M would be 'truly interested' in selling to the 'right' bidder is a very open and subjective question. In their last interview, they said that the executive committee (Webber, Ward, Kensell) was in charge of potential investment, and presenting any suitable investment offers to them. We simply don't know how serious they are or are not about finding such an investment. However, one thing to bear in mind is that football clubs are not 'an investment'; they don't make you any money. Just ask D&M themselves. Therefore, the best chance of actually making a return on a football club (or, at least, limiting the amount of money you pour into a black hole in exchange for the exposure of running a football club) is to purchase it at its weakest and build it up to its optimum performance. As we've said already, we're already pretty close to our zenith; the club is self-sufficient, well-balanced, financially futureproofed and has loyal support and a full stadium every week. To a potential investor, that doesn't sound like an ideal opportunity to play 'knight in shining armour', but more like an opportunity to p*ss away megabucks simply to cement us as 'one of the 14' every season.

The model is the model out of necessity, because we have dirt-poor owners. The only way the model will change in the foreseeable future is if the owners change. Jim Smith will gladly explain how likely he thinks that is...🤓 There was never going to be a wholesale shake-up of the first-team squad last summer. Not just because of the lack of cash but because it was impossible to know who and how many of the squad would not make the step up, given what a jump in quality this was given their previous levels. I only half-joked before the season started that if the other 19 managers didn't realise Stiepermann was the most one-footed player in the history of the game we would win the league, and if they did then we would get relegated. And he is not the only one of last season's stand-out performers who has found it very hard to make the step up. We were not in a position to assume the worst about so many players and replace them. Plus we also needed to shop for the future. We actually signed nine players in the summer, but only two of them, Drmic and Byram, were for the first-team squad. As were the loanees, Fahrmann, Roberts and Amadou. A justified criticism would be that we placed too much faith in two players, Drmic and Klose, with bad injury records. Could we have spent some more without endangering the model? Possibly. We did try to splash out €15m late on. It would have had to have been players we were certain would be an improvement who would not want the earth in wages and would be willing to take a relegation pay-cut. Only Webber would know if there were such available. A final point. Amid all the talk before and at the AGM about possible stadium expansion, what seemed to get missed was Ben Kensell stressing that upgrading Colney, presumably at some considerable expense, was still the priority, ahead of any extra capacity at Carrow Road.

See, this is what I have a bit of a problem with. Those who want new ownership or more money or whatever seem to think they are some all knowing prophecy that are clearly above the other fans. The facts staring you in the face unfortunately suggest that spending more money may not have made any difference. The facts staring you in the face suggest different ownership is more likely to be worse than better. No guarantees yet apparently our fans have been brainwashed. Either that or, somewhat admirably, they see above the instant gratification of this season and have bought into the long term plans of the club? Personally? I think we've just not quite had that bit extra needed to stay up this season alongside a really poor injury situation that took our initial momentum away from us. Despite that I'm really proud of the players and management for sticking to principals, playing entertaining football and trying to win games, even if it hasnt worked out. The crazy thing on top of all that is we arent even quite out of the running completely, yet.

Past few games have left me absolutely gutted , this takes it to a new level . We were superb against a team who were in the Champions League Final last season , us a newly promoted side made up of a glorious mix of youth , underachieving talent , free transfers and lower league foreign players . Best thing for me today , Carrow Road . Noisy , p***** off , totally partisan ! BRILLIANT . So f*** VAR , f*** the premier elite . Don’t think they want us do they ? Where is Norwich anyway ? Sod them . They’ve got us because we’ve earned it the hard way and I’m not gonna give up on it easily . So let’s put aside all differences for one game , and take all our different frustrations out on Palace next game and take the atmosphere at Carrow Road to a new level . Win that ...... game on .... Apologies for swearing.

Lovely baubles maybe?

An injury free Tettey is one of our most effective players, and has been for years. Strong in the tackle, knows his limitations and doesn't tend to make silly passes, occasionally unleashes a thunderbolt shot and works tirelessly the entire time he's on the pitch. One of our best servants of the past 10-15 years, and criminally underrated by some IMHO.

I actually think all premier league fans should bring large red cards with a two finger V on it to be held aloft just before KO.

Blood? Maths? Sorry...gallows humour.

Yeah, why can't we be 1p5wich?.... Delia out!

Fair enough, however, everyone now knows what the interpretation is. If you encroach, you run a high risk of undoing the good work your keeper (or goal posts) do. The message is still the same, don't encroach and if you do, you are to blame.

Wow. It is intensely frustrating at the moment, but the upside is the quality of football we are producing and the tantalising prospect that we could start the getting results our overall play deserves. There is always another game round the corner and the prospect of producing another fine display - with hopefully a bit more luck in front of goal.