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No, we're here because the Tories (starting with Theresa May) were told that either the UK needed to be in a Customs Union, a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland needed to exist, or Northern Ireland needed to be treated differently to the rest of the UK. After three years of dithering, proposing "technological solutions" that don't exist, Boris has chosen the third option, despite it being worse than the theoretical backstop.

While some of us had higher hopes before the start of the season, most people (quite rightly) expected us to be fighting for survival. We obviously set the bar pretty high by beating Man City so it is understandable to be disappointed by the run of games since - just 1 point from 5 matches is a poor return. However, we are not far away from where we would have expected to be and I'm sure we will turn things around. When reflecting on the first quarter of the season, keep in mind the following: We have played 7 out of the current top 10 in the league. While no Premier League game is easy, we have faced a disproportionate number of the better (and more in-form) teams. We will have easier runs of fixtures in which to make up points. We have faced a ridiculous injury crisis of unprecedented scale. It was always a gamble to largely stick with the promoted squad, but imagine if it was £100m worth of new signings lining the treatment room right now. Just 1 win could see us out of the relegation zone. We are involved in some very entertaining games. Last night was quite a spectacle, even though the performance was poor on the whole. I would much rather see that kind of drama than a tight and cagey 1-0 loss. Even if we do get relegated we will be in a great position. Obviously it would be a big loss, but we would be in great shape to tear up the Championship again. Last season was the best I can remember. I'd rather we had won a couple more games, but things are likely to improve over the coming weeks. Let's enjoy the roller-coaster ride that is supporting Norwich!

Both👍

I love the chicken counting going on here. Very insightful comment by Prof. Curtis yesterday. Upshot was if as expected SNP & LD take 100+ seats its VERY difficult to see how either the Tories on Labour could then form a majority government. Further as the the Tories are now Johnny no mates a minority or coalition Labour / SNP / LD government may be likely. All Labour have to do for this to play out is to deny Boris a majority (not win). Even the DUP may go with it. That may very well be the subtle calculation that the SNP and LD made! Such a result would see the Tories gone and a 2nd ref nailed on.

No one can say they're surprised to see such a young defence - we knew this was the plan in August. Misfortune with injuries to all of the more experienced players around them has been and continues to be costly. If survival is achieved, their market prices will be high and they may very well choose to stay anyway. If we're relegated, they might stay and will be wiser & more experienced for another promotion push. If they move to another top-flight club, they must have been deemed to have done well and the club pockets the fees which will hopefully be put to good use and we wish them well. Lewis, Aarons, Godfrey and Cantwell all have great potential & are learning on the job. Buendia turns 23 on Christmas Day, if I'm not mistaken. Plenty of time on their side. Webber's record here so far is impressive at getting good fees on player sales. Players will virtually always move on, for lots of different reasons. We have some good young players (assets??!!) here. Enjoy them. And support them.

I’ve played in Italy, coached in Italy and been coached in the Ajax system and took my badges under an International Manager. As WCorkCanary notes from his experiences with the Auxerre Coach, other countries just don’t have the obsession with size. They will of course embrace high physicality gratefully if it comes as part of the tactical-intelligence-technical-speed package, but those things will always be the primary drivers. I have literally never met a quality player that thought ‘oh my God, I’ve got no chance today, he’s taller than me’. Parma

Or people are presenting horribly simplistic solutions as self-certified pub wisdom. We can attract young, unproven, technical talent because we play such players. We don’t have a lot of money. Quality technical and big physical players are very expensive and everyone chases them. We have no money so we go after players with chequered careers, injury risks or those who have travelled without settling or - excellently - quality young players starved of opportunity (that de-facto others have rejected or not opened the door to). Whatever we choose we want players who can play a fluid, expansive, possession-oriented game. To bring in physical players therefore either means the binary of bringing in players who are big and physical (and perhaps not so technical, thus undermining the model) or bringing in players who are big and physical and technical (which every half-baked analyst from a 3rd tier side can identify. They cost a fortune and everybody chases them, thus undermining the model - again). We are on a model on the Auxerre-Ajax-Barcelona spectrum of long term methodology and philosophy. We will prefer players we have bred and talent we have schooled. If we can have all the assets plus physicality of course we will welcome it with open arms. Of course equal brilliant and superior physical beats just equal brilliant most times. To change means so much more than trite pub landlord solutions and simplicities. We were incredible last year. It was a wonderful unexpected miracle. We didn’t then spend any money. Other Premier teams already had lots of money and lots of great players. Our methodology is refreshing and will maximise our chances and improve our players based on our available parameters. Repeatedly upsetting the odds against teams and players that are better is unlikely however. You must believe it and you will sometimes achieve it, though let us not stake our houses on rainbows and unicorns, rather let us enjoy victories against Man City and the wonderful memories of a beautiful and - let’s not forget - the already against the odds and unexpected success of last year. We are pocketing the cash to develop the model. A pragmatic choice and one that has momentum behind it, though is borne as much out of necessity as choice. We either go into a gunfight with a knife or we try some innovative guerilla tactics that may not work, though which do not see Steven Naismith in the reserves, but rather see Godfrey, Aarons, Lewis, Cantwell et al receive an unbuyable education, likely enhancing their values (perhaps exponentially) and ‘proving’ to the world that we meant it when we said ‘come here (excellent young, underused player) and you’ll be given a fair chance and a great education. This way the next Maddison comes to us too. And slightly better young players are attracted than even before. And so it continues. Or you could spend a load of cash on big lads that are a bit worse than everybody else’s big lads, with money we don’t have and putting off all the young gifted players that we haven’t yet signed that are crucial to our sustainability under the current model. Parma

Standing by injured players as a result of it being sustained playing football is one thing but Keogh and his mates were behaving like clowns and i do not think the stance taken by Derby County is ' disgusting ' as you put it Kiwi. He is paying for the consequences of his actions.

When you need to drain the swamp, start with your own backyard. Seems the right thing to do.

Fixed it for you - It's 6 refurbished hospitals, and a promise to replace 20,000 police they previously cut. If you kept your eyes open you might just realize you have been duped.

Btw which will be first? Scottish Independence or Prince Charles as King.

No you can't confirm it, or no they don't stop at the farm shop?

That'll be the new tory logo.

That might be misinterpreted as a vote for ........

“I’m going to support Lib Dems, Labour, Green, SNP, Plaid. I commit to not hammering any of them here.” Blimey, she gets about a bit, registered in more constituencies than I am !

or " I'm just pointing out that it's not all good from any party, you just have to weigh up the good and bad and make a decision. " Swindon Canary An argument in which I fully agree with Swindon. RTB/Crank's suggestion is absurd as it is dangerous (quelle suprise). Are voters supposed to accept any other nonsensical shiite because a party advocates one particular policy in regard to brexit ? Am i to vote for a party that wants to limit families to a maximum of 2 children because they agree with my thoughts on Brexit ? How much will I therefore accept solely because that party agrees to impliment my wish. What does someone who agrees with all the Lib Dem policies apart from Brexit vote... and visa versa with the Tories. A Tory voter in Scotland who is a Remainer and does not agree with 'independence' ? Vote SNP ? Simply attaching brexit to the debate is a cretinious and stupid idea as not only does it cause confusion among voters but gives the 'winners' a supposed 'mandate' for anything else they intend to do. If I vote for Labour in a two horse race with the Tories does it mean I agree with a policy to end all private schools ? Only a halfwit such as RTB/Crank would not see the danger there.

Yes really irrelevant. The UK can co-exist with Ireland without having to be in a CU.

Here in Norwich South we have Mr Clive Lewis. Absolutely nailed on to be re-elected

True, but Swindon could live in another constituency.......Swindon South maybe

I'm not in the mood to explain the word "either" to RTB

I meant to say what I said, my opinion. As for his continence, I will yield to your superior knowledge😀

A very debatable point. The SNP are keen for him to go North of the border as he repels the Scots. He also disgusts voters on Merseyside and in Remain constituencies he is largely recognised as an incontinent liar. In the polls Johnson led Tories are well behind where May led Tories were in 2017. I think what you mean to say is the right wing media say he is an effective campaigner, not the same thing.

I agree, it is foolish electorally. Whilst it may be “designed” to appeal to both sides, personally I cant see many people being attracted to it. Remainers will surely want to vote for a party that is explicitly remain and leavers for a party that is explicitly leave.

It is a little sad but enlightening that people only have a 1 bit binary mind in an analogue world. But then that's what has got us into this mess. No subtlety, nuance or middle way allowed.

I know this is completely off topic and has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, but I'm curious... Just purely out of interest, what level did you play at and who did you play for?

The fact I'm stuck in England with people like RTB. 😀

Yes, hard to argue with that, whichever side of the debate you're coming from. A Tory majority means Brexit. Anything else could very well mean no Brexit, maybe following a confirmatory referendum. Many things muddy the waters when chicken counting. Lib Dems are going to be much stronger than last time for a start. Boris is totally different to Theresa May. He could prove to be popular or he could **** it right up. Corbyn definitely had a bounce during the last election campaign, partly because May was so hopeless. I don't think his second bounce will be so high personally. The only thing that is certain is that it's going to be a highly charged campaign!

No he doesn't, he says it looks like we are starting to spend again after balancing the books, they're two very different things.

Great thread and as ever terrific to have the views of Palma bringing an injection of expertise the rest of us can only aspire too. This obsession with size really does seem to be a British thing, I can recall during the Worthy days being involved with the youngsters at Colney, Worthy was certainly a "size matters" man and seeing lads released on the basis that they were too small was pretty tough to see. It did make you wonder how these lads were ever moved up from the PDC, as it was then, to only be rejected later on due too being too small. Bellamy was often mentioned in these scenarios but to no avail. We have made a choice as a club to find a formula that fits our purse and satisfies the (apparent ) demands of fans to play the "Norwich Way" We were treated to some amazing footy last season and I wouldnt want to change that for the world. If you believe in a style of play and want to push that to the limit within a reasonable spend, you end up with what we have, I am happy with that.

Barcelona would struggle week in week out with the relentless, physical nature of the Premier League

I don't necessarily believe that the youth & inexperience in the back line is the root of the current problems. Part of the issue, sure. We're being outplayed and pretty much dominated through the midfield area leaving the defence exposed. A bit of luck with injuries was always going to be a requirement to remain competitive, which hasn't been the case, obviously. Sadly it's doesn't look like this situation is going to improve any time soon, e.g. Krul & Amadou at the weekend. The step up from the Championship looks (at this juncture) to be a bit beyond McLean, Trybull & Stiepermann. If DF looks to shore up this area with Tettey, Trybull (who are both fairly injury prone) and one from Leitner, Vrancic, McLean and hopefully Amadou at some stage, we run the risk of isolating the attack; however we might stay in the game until the last 20 mins and grab a few points. This type of approach might help for a month or two until (hopefully) there are more defensive options and the approach can be re-appraised accordingly. Farke is now currently wrestling with the much-sought balance between attack & defence which of course hinges on the midfield, particularly defensive midfield. It didn't take long for opposition coaches to pick out Buendia & Pukki as the two that make things tick offensively. Cantwell is learning his trade at the sharp end & Stieps has his charms but, for me, is simply not good enough to be the fulcrum at this level. Onel has been missed but again we don't know yet how effective he will be at this level once he gets 'sussed out.' A combination of these issues combined with such a youthful defence is leading to the current struggles. It is easy to be wise after the fact. The centre-back injuries have been hugely unfortunate and continue to limit to what the coaching team can try to implement. Players are coming back now, increasing options. DF really does need to climb Everest again or the damage may be done before the end of the January window. Hopefully we can turn things around, stay in games until the end, keep a few clean sheets, score a few late goals, reduce the reliance on Pukki, improve around set-pieces and generally look like we belong in this division. 17th is the goal for this season. Plenty of games to go but we need to be racking up a few points. Towel not thrown in yet but the next few games are important.

You seem in a good mood Benny Tillo, so maybe you could answer me this as the subject has moved from gloves to hats. Is it, or was it ever true that a pregnant woman 'caught short' in a public place could request the use of a nearby Bobbies helmet to save her the embarrassment of leaving a puddle?

This is one of several times on this thread that your response is to talk about something other than the point that is being made. So we looked at Maddison, decided he was worth £4million and paid it. Is that a problem? Where does that contradict what Parma has said? The fact he didn’t play in our academy for 10 years first is to be regretted but hardly a disaster. The point I think he has made is that the next time we see a promising player in the mould of Maddison, £4 million or not, they are much more likely to come to us because we have shown we can take promising young players who have missed out on being snapped up by the academies at the “big” clubs and not only develop them, but play them, hence giving them an excellent step up for their career.

I've quoted you Mouldyo rather than just reply in case anyone who doesn't get what you are saying,can read it again so that they might get it second time around. I couldn't agree more. What we are doing will take time and may, for many factors,not propel us to regular champions League appearances, but it should improve our club in more ways than just league position. You mention Auxerre, our local (age 8-18)Club was lucky enough to somehow get a Volunteer Head Coach who'd earned his coaching badges through Auxerre's and the French FA System. . His whole approach has been a revelation here.

Barcelona, the $Billion team who didn’t buy big players. Barcelona, the $Billion team who nurtured players from their Academy. Who were small. If you’d said ‘we’re losing because they’re better than us’ that would be fine, but you didn’t you said ‘we’re losing because they’re bigger than us’. For real personal context, I should add that I was selected for my first trial at Parma by the Club Doctor because I was ‘physically the ideal size’. 5’11 strong and fast. That’s great, but Barcelona and others came along and smashed the theory out of the park. Paul Scholes was 5’7 alongside Roy Keane at 5’10, similar (slightly shorter actually) than Emi Buendia 5’7 and Kenny Maclean 5’11 (Todd Cantwell is 5’9). They appeared to have overcome their ‘absence of physicality’. Fred is 5’7, Andreas Pereira is 5’10, Dan James is 5’7, Martial 5’11, Rashford 5’11.... It’s a simplistic solution that ‘sounds like it must be right’ though simply doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. Results determine reaction from fans, quite understandably. When the Team you love loses all sorts of single, silver bullets appear to solve the problem. The prosaic truth is that any meaningful solutions for those with restricted funds are typically process-led, longer-term and must be guided by principles that extend beyond results. Parma

Fair point, well made. I'm not one for rushing to judgement without evidence but I remain to be convinced that Rolf Harris is either a Norwich supporter (although I can see we wouldn’t be making it public knowledge) or if he was that he would post on here as himself.

They're young and they're playing in a struggling team. It also doesn't help that they're playing in a very inexperienced backline- I can't help but get the impression that if you were to put any one of Lewis, Aarons or Godfrey in an experienced defence they'd look more assured. As individuals, they've got lots of quality and the potential to play at the top, which is why big clubs will pay a lot of money for them. But as a unit, they're lacking a leader.

When we played Newcastle, Leitner was superb and dictated the game. Against better midfields, he will struggle. If was capable of dictating play against top 10 premier league sides, he’d be playing for one. 5 of the next 6 matches are against teams more akin to Newcastle than Man Utd quality and I would expect Leitner to be far more effective in these matches. This assumes he plays as a deep lying midfielder and not in the no 10 role, where he really shouldn’t ever be considered again.

Good post Wazz. The first point is, I'm sure, the thinking behind the protocol introduced . By only checking certain decisions automatically no inference is gained from the review. We'll not find out the reaction of POGMOL for many months if at all. My guess is that the VAR ref will get a roasting, for incorrectly making one of their own look stupid. Attwell will have been contacted already, to reassure him how great he is. Point two - the VAR are refs. All trained the same, all with the same outlook. I'd say none of them are good enough to ref a game from a single viewpoint and the need for properly applied technology is there. But with no fresh blood, and no alternative outlook. Nothing will change under the current regime. And these blokes have their snouts in the same trough as the rest of football so why would they look to make controversial changes? A list ref starts on £100k retainer , and can get £5k for a European game , plus expenses.

Well done Petriix 👍 You could also add the utterly priceless education that our young players are receiving as they play regularly at the highest level. Whatever now happens, they vastly improve as players and assets. The weekly level is well beyond anything in even single games at lower levels and little can prepare you for the dynamic intensity and scrutiny. We cannot compete financially, but we can compete by offering pathways and opportunities. Players ultimately want to play. For too long fine talent has been hoarded and hidden. We can be proud that we are in the vanguard of the movement away from that. Parma

Take your common sense words elsewhere, what we need now is some ore yelling into the ether about how unfair it is and how someone else should spend a load more money or give the club away. Bbooooooooooooo

I have been watching Krul closely, he's been doing this since August.

Leitner is the perfect foil for a midfielder destroyer. Put him next to Amadou and he'll be more effective. As much as I trust Farke, I do find his decision to push Leitner into an advanced role slightly odd. He's clearly so much more comfortable with the play in front of him, and therefore suits the deeper role. Providing he's got a ball winner next to him.

Why didn't you point out he was too weak for this league in the first 4 or 5 games this season? From what I can see his strength hasn't changed whatsoever from then till now..

I'm not sure which point you're disagreeing with in my post, but as it stands, it certainly doesn't look like we brought in the players we "needed" as we at risk of being marooned in the relegation zone. Sure injuries played their part to an unlikely degree, but tough luck for us. Rewarding players is great. It's also what promotion bonuses are for in existing contracts though. I'll still be right behind Farke & Webber even if we are relegated, but it doesn't mean I have to be blind to any potential failings in the meantime.

I’m happy as I finally managed to get a ticket with my standard away membership, which I was genuinely beginning to doubt after failing to get one for West Ham or Palace. Looking forward to it very much and my first trip to the Amex 😁👍

You said you didn't support the Tories anymore due to them giving bribes to terrorists - a consistent position you hold because of Corbyn's associations with terrorists decades ago and your decision to uphold your principles by applying that measure to both parties? In fact you said I was wrong to suggest that you would be inconsistent on this issue and support the Tories. So just to be clear. You're not happy about Corbyn associating with Gerry Adams etc, and working with them to secure peace, but you are happy to give a billion pounds of taxpayer money to an Enoch Powell campaign manager and a terrorist who brought arms, including rocket propelled grenades to be used against civilians, into the UK? Tick tock or flip flop?