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I do love a good read of TWTD, even in our darkest times their delusions have made me laugh. I read recently a thread about the financial impact of their relegation to League One and it appears as though the farm hands are rather missing the plot...one even suggested that they might even reduce their debt by getting relegated. https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/448112/why-relegation-would-be-a-financial-disaster. What has changed since we were in League One is FFP. Effectively the EFL have put into place some pretty stringent rules to limit what clubs can pay in wages and unlike getting relegated from the Premier League there is no parachute payments. Whilst FFP in the Championship is fairly flimsy at League One level it is more rigid and strictly enforced and it comes in the form of SCMP - Salary Control Management Protocol - which allows clubs to only spend 60% of their turnover on wages. For the binners this spells huge issues. Their last set of accounts showed they paid £18.5m in wages against a turnover of just £17.1m. In League One their revenue will drop by at least £6m because of the difference in TV money alone (it will probably be more due to falling attendances (fewer away fans) and lower commercial deals etc) so that means their turnover will be around £11m. If that is the case then with SCMP they will be forced to operate with a wage bill of just £6.6m - down nearly £12m from the last set of accounts...and if they don’t then they’ll be under a transfer embargo. Now player sales count towards turnover so in theory they can sell off their ‘best’ players to increase their turnover...however it’s not like they have a hugely talented squad that has simply under performed, they are where they are because their playing squad isn’t good enough for the championship. Even if one of their players is in demand every club in the league knows the issues that they are facing financially so they are hardly going to get ‘decent’ offers. They literally will have to take whatever they get offered. As we know getting rid of players on big wages can be an issue, so that juicy new contract they gave to the hapless keeper last summer (20k per week, £1m a year) will be over 15% of their total salary bill all on his own. The best they can hope is they can find someone to take him on a free and match his contract, but it’s hardly like he’s going to be in that much demand, given his wages and the season he’s having. But, I hear the dim-witted farm hands down the road say, their friendly (asset-stripping ticket tout) owner can simply pump in millions more of his money to boost the turnover figures...except old Marcus has never gifted the club anything, all the money he ‘invests’ each year to keep them afloat is actually in the form of loans...ever heard the one about it not really being debt because he owes it to himself! Now the EFL have long since cottoned on to that old ploy so loans aren’t included within turnover for SCMP calculations, meaning unless the tout actually donates the money to the club he can’t make up the shortfall himself...and given that he’s not exactly been one to dig into his own pockets (exact opposite, he’s actually robbed them blind) the notion that he will suddenly change seems rather far fetched! Now SCMP doesn’t actually cover transfer fees paid out, so in theory they could go and blow millions on new players to rebuild their already League One standard squad, however they still have to pay the wages of the players they pay fees of and keep to the salary limit...so again that seems unlikely. There are some exceptions to SCMP for young players and existing long term contracts, but seeming as though the long term contracts are most likely to be the most onerous, this is scant consolation. http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/scmp.php To sum it all up, this idea that they can go down and bounce straight back up seems fanciful. Yes there are clubs that have done it but those were (relatively in comparison) better run clubs...and the longer they spend in League One the harder it gets as the more their turnover falls.

Shame they couldn't have done this for St John Ambulance. Hopefully he'd only get 5p in the pound anyway...

I took a look on there the other day and it seems they've actually taken a fairly sensible approach and decided to talk about anything but football.

I don't think six premier league games in a defensive minded team is any judgement on a player's ability to do well there. His goals are generally clever poacher style goals and in the right set up, he - like Pukki - would score goals at the top level. How many minutes has Rhodes played this season? Not many yet he has proved well worth his place in the squad with some vital goals. I see no reason for that to change if we are promoted. It actually begs the question of how we would go about a premier league campaign - imo it would be following the same approach as we have now, using basically the same players, very few new ones and with no huge outlay. Even just one PL season could set the club up for years in terms of developing the infrastructure at the club, rather than spending stupid amounts on players and contracts that could undermine what has been done over the last two seasons.

“We have a group that are really living this attitude of loving the name on the front of the shirt and not on the back.” Daniel Farke, direct quote.

Thanks for all the ideas, I've used quite a lot of them - so let's have £1 each on these, Pukki to score at anytime on each of them - 2-1 3-1 3-0 2-0 Then - 2-0 Godfrey to score at anytime 1-0 Zimmermann to score the goal Stiepermann to score at anytime Hernandez to score the first goal Rhodes to score the last goal and finally..... let's have a mad one - 5 -1 to Norwich Bundia to score the first goal A few long shots in there, but some sensible ones to balance it up. Good luck to JF and to everyone, hope it's a great game and something comes in for us!

In bocca al lupo 🐾🐕 JF... ...suggest a trip to the Spanish sun for the Primera W Game between: Atletico Madrid vs Fundacion - Home win As for Lakey’s Norwich bet, wonder if it might be a tight game settled by a late Stieperman piece of (unorthodox) magic, so a treble of Norwich win, 1-0 victory, Stieperman to score first and Stieperman to score last and Norwich clean sheet...maybe that’s a quintuple....😊 Parma

It means they will only be buying players over the age of 50

Bryan "Speed" Gunn.

You have to consider that these were only the times he was caught. If he managed to get caught speeding this many times in a short span, then it's fairly obvious he consistently and comfortably breaks the speed limit. The police and courtrooms aren't just out looking to get Bryan Gunn.

They would be better of using that 3k to buy a new striker and two central defenders

Thanks for the suggestions everybody, they are all solid picks and whittling them down to 6 was hard but I’ve gone for. Scarborough win Colonge win Arsenal win Leeds win Spurs win Bury win There are 3 picks that I really wanted to include but I decided to play it slightly safer instead so I’ve placed them in a £10 treble and if by some miracle it comes in I’ll forward the winnings of £220 on to NN. Man U vs Liverpool Draw West Brom vs Shef Utd Draw Norwich win

My bad. Not very observant

Yes, he is. He’s reportedly on £30k - £40k a week now and I doubt he’d jump at a pay cut. Sheff Wed will want a fee as they could probably get another loan fee for him like the one Norwich paid. Also, at 29 any money Norwich put into him isn’t going to be seen again. Better to spend on a younger player who could potentially overtake Pukki as first choice striker - even if it means spending more, but potentially being able to recoup more. Last thing Norwich should do, if promoted, is load the club up with more long term, expensive contracts for aging players with little to zero resale potential. Basically no more Naismiths.

Is he really that expensive that if were to get promoted he wouldn't be worth having precisely to have the same impact he currently does? If he scores or helps create half a dozen goals as an impact sub it may be the difference between staying up and relegation.

There is no doubt relegation for town would be an unmitigated disaster. To be fair to them a few of their support realise this and can see beyond the 'it's not really a debt mantra,' and can also see ME for what he really is. It is far to say those in the enlightened batch are worried for the future. Even accepting they may be in league one for a few seasons before they regroup properly. However, the fun really is as you say hearing from a few of the terminally dim, that Marcus is their saviour and all will be well when they storm the league next season, due to the size of their club...…...

It’s not going so well The benefits cheques haven’t landed yet

Was looking through the side at the derby and subsequent matches, realised that the most recent first team had all been signed / given debuts in last 2 years and cost under 5m. Also how many players we have that just aren’t in the picture, but probably on the bigger wages (count about £25m out on loan). Made me think about how much we will save in the summer post clear out. All the numbers below are estimated, based on news stories and football manager (not super reliable). Leaving: Pinto: 20k a week Naismith: 30k a week McGovern: 10k a week Jarvis: 20k a week Wildschut: 20k a week Likely to leave (subject to interest of course): Nelson: 20k, would take anything, but maybe guess 1m fee Raggett: low wages, signed for 350k, probably 250k to sell Husband: low wages, probably another 250k Franke: wages been paid by loan clubs: probably 1m fee Ben Marshall: low wages, probably 1m fee Some of the players have been out on loan, so their wages have been covered this year. But looks like £100 - 125k a week SAVED and £3.5m of fees coming in with no dent at all on the first 18: over a year that is £8.7m or £10m saved. Which surely puts us in a strong position in the summer and beyond?: Obviously we have to resolve / replace the following: Klose: probably 30k Passalack: 10k maybe Rhodes I wasn’t sure about some of Webber and Farke’s decisions early on at times (Husband and Stierperman at left back), but this alone would put us in a great position in the summer. Clean – lean squad, no hangover costs and hopefully premier league money!

3 grand is nothing to him but would be funny as f**k if they raised the amount and he actually accepted it.

As if Lambert isn't screwing the club for enough for what amounts to just a load of cynical bull shine, terrible results and largely ineffective signings at the last window. Thanks to the chance that man was given by NCFC (a club he now hates), the fair wind and the massive support on top of that, PL is now a rich man. He has even probably made a small fortune from being sacked from clubs who needed to pay up his contract (Villa?) The dumbos at the @ the Loo can only dream of that man's wealth. They are gestering this pathetic move because in their minds Lambert's frantic, drunk-like exhibition at Carrow Road showed "passion." They fall for his every tactic. He has probably even convinced himself as he doesn't seem to have a lot up top. That gentleman Bobby Robson would be turning in his grave. ITFC. The gift that keeps on giving.

I’d have thought he was appointed with a longer term vision than one season, seventh wouldn’t be awful for a rookie in arguably the toughest pound for pound league in the world.

The Zenit team bus on their way to the stadium tonight for a Europa League game.

Currently we're bargain hunting at this level- if you go up to the Premier League then spending £10m on a player is still bargain hunting. Take Bournemouth or Palace- both of those teams have spend over £10m on multiple players. It is just the reality of Premier League football.

We have seen in recent years that 10 million pound players don't necessarily improve the team. 30 or 40 million will but obviously we are not in the position to compete at that level. Therefore, I predict that we will continue with our current approach.

I agree 100% with all of that. 1. Rhodes' Premier League potential cannot be evaluated on evidence thus far. 2. He is a "poacher" and therefore will always be capable of that vital goal, whatever the level. 3. Certain players fit. Clearly he didn't do too well at 'Boro, but he has a very distinguished career goals-wise,albeit mostly at Championship level. He has not let NCFC down when called upon (that penalty excepted.) 4.Farke sees him as a positive character to have at the club ... DF is a specialist at this sort of assessment it would seem. RE: Promo. Agreed. Stick basically with what we have, reaping the rewards of television income for a season, get parachutes and coming down stronger and set up for years will be the WORST possible scenario of a brief stay. I trust the current regime to strengthen where they see fit at the right cost. They have a proven record. Another season of the Man. Uniteds and full gates and more coverage on television (liveSky, MotD.) is ok by me. Again, that's the WORST possible scenario.

is that Prince of Wales Road?

I'm just wondering where they're going to find £20,000, maybe sell one of their best players.

Leo Vegas?

What about those of us who didn't think it was dire last season and said so at the time? Particularly the second half.

talk about giving the game away! Not that the opposition can do much about it.